Which DC project?

[Antoine]

ok, there hasnt been any threads in here lately but basically, which DC project do you feel is the most worthy, and best in general, i was looking for something to kind of Burn in my CPU, its never had much strenuous use, and i think i should give it some, for when i do decide to play unreal all night at a LAN. Also some of these projects are worth causes.

As well as this there is my ulterior motive, seeing just whose computer is best between me any my friends, so something that gives stat would be preferred, my friends insist that their 1.8GHz Intel P4 is faster than my Athlon 1700+ and they wont believe me when i tell them otherwise.

So answers on a postcard people :-D

[Wizzo]

Well MPUK have a team on www.ud.com, which I think is cool atm. Otherwise distributed.net or seti is good.

[Antoine]

cheers

*goes to phone friends, and whoop their asses*

[TelexStar]

Originally posted by Wizzo
Well MPUK have a team on www.ud.com, which I think is cool atm. Otherwise distributed.net or seti is good.

that page cannot be viewed :/

[Big Giant Head]

www.ud.com

most web address don't have commas in ;)

[TelexStar]

lol that'll be why then :D

[TelexStar]

United Devices™ is a leading provider of distributed computing software and services. We offer the MetaProcessor(tm) platform, an enterprise technology that allows companies to harness the idle resources of computers on corporate networks to build enterprise computing grids. Our customers employ these grids to gain competitive advantage and increase profitability by accelerating research and business applications.

thats hardley a worthy cause is it? aren't you just putting money into other peoples pockets?

SETI is far more fun :D

[Big Giant Head]

UD was used to try and find a cure for cancer by comparing molecules and stuff (I don't really understand it) however that project finished a while back

Cool idea though

[TelexStar]

ahh i see!

can i ask, is it better to have this stuff running all the time? or just in screen saver mode?

I havea 1.4 athlon with 256mb DDR

[Antoine]

personally i went for running Prime95 the program from a project called GIMPS (Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search), there are possible rewards if you find things, but at least you know that your idle CPU is doing some good testing for possible prime numbers that vare very very large.

It does not take over your computer which i find is a good thing, it has the lowest possible priority, so when the CPU isnt being used it will run, if you are playing say unreal, it wont use the CPU hardly at all, however if you are typing, or some other general desktop work, it will make use of the CPU when you are not using it, this constantly keeps the CPU at 100% useage.

You may decide on another project, but this one has found 5 of the 39 known merseene primes so far! in 5 years!, since they were discovered by elucid in sometime BC (i have a maths teacher that likes to feed us useless facts) i think thats quite impressive. Only thing is i dont think there is a way to use it to compare computers, but it is worthwhile i would say. And you can have it load on startup and keep gfoing all the time, the download isnt big either.

http://www.mersenne.org if you are interested, or just want to have a look.

Before decideing on this i looked at a lot of others, but the programs either werent as nice (in that they didnt comply with letting you do your work as well), or were run for the benefit of companies rather than individuals.

[WhiteKnight]

Originally posted by Antoine
but at least you know that your idle CPU is doing some good testing for possible prime numbers that vare very very large.

Hmm, so you think that searching for stupidly big numbers is more worth while than finding a cure for cancer or other diseses ?

Hmm... 151,165,132,515,512,531,153,765,264,264,521,064.1

There, thats a stupidly huge number, do i get a prize ? :rolleyes:

</sarcasm>

BTW, BGH, the cancer research is still on going...

http://members.ud.com/projects/cancer/proj_news.htm

I mean, we havent found a cure yet have we ? :rolleyes:

[WhiteKnight]

Oh, and while one of the secondary UD tasks are running you apparently experience a "Low Member Impact"..... :confused:

thats good... I`d hate to be on the recieving end of a "High Member Impact" :eek:

http://members.ud.com/projects/web_test/experience.htm

:D

[Zenith]

I quit UD after about a week because it kept crashing my machine at the time.

Because of that, the pointlessness of SETI@home, the lack of appllication for RC5 and the fact that you're donating a resource means that there's not much reason to actually participate in these things.

If it was for something practical and tangible like solving equations to discover transluminal space travel, THEN I'd be interested.




btw, transluminal means speeds over and above the speed of light.

[MONK]

UD been very stable on my machine so not sure about that but try it again....

And as for SETI@HOME

We've also started using the SETI@home data tapes for two completely different purposes: making a map of hydrogen gas in the Milky Way, and searching for broadband pulses that might be evidence of evaporating black holes - a phenomenon
that has been predicted but not observed.

And for thoes of you that have broadband or a second line try protein folding at home (http://www.foldingathome.com) with out question it has uses!

Although I can see you're point about RC5 it's not a bad idea to see how strong RC5 is but I think they should have kept to 56 bit keys as any more it gets silly as we can see with RC5-64.

Really I would rather they tried breaking small key sizes and just test the power of these crypto systems. But in saying this there is not as much reason to do this any more leave it for the maths bods. But it was a very good way to kick start the DC era!

So what might be better is either the OGR project or GIMPS (http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm) - the Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search. Prime numbers can be used in a lot of area so this is also useful.

This is just a couple of DC project there are quite a few more...

[Bob^^]

Personally, i run UD agent on my desktop PC *all the time* that the machine is on : its a 1.0GHz Slot A 'old-sk00l' athlon with 640MB RAM. It never seems to impact performance at all, despite the CPU being at 100% all the time - just as with SETI, it seems to only use the 'spare' CPU capacity - which can only be a good thing.

UD did also do an anthrax cure project too, but i notice the client has reverted back to cancer on my machine, a very worthwhile cause.

I run SETI@Home on a coloc box that i admin, as the load on it is very low, and SETI make clients for just about every OS known to man (in this case, FreeBSD). UD really need to make some agents for other OSs, they're losing out looooads by making it Windows only. :(

[MONK]

They finished the anthrax project (Which I though was quite quick) started 22nd of Jan finished 14th of feb.


They screened 3.57 billion molecules for suitability as a treatment for advanced-stage Anthrax and found 300,000 crude unique hits. And using something like combinational cemistry this could be screen very quickly!

Of course the medical cemistry will take a bit longer but it's a good start!

[Cabe]

UD also need multitreading, I have a dual 1GHz machine here and all I get outta it is that the UD app gets 50% of each processor.

[wishy]

Ditto my dual PII 300 server :/

[Bob^^]

someone really needs to pass some multithreading skills to the UD developers. And some cross-platform-compilation skills. And a crate of beer.

:)

[Elbonio]

i had some probs with UD

it crashes my computer when the screensaver has been on for a while

i keep coming back to find it frozen

do you think this could be becuase i have SETI running aswell?

[Antoine]

with Prime 95 you can condigure it to run on one CPU, and spawn another instance to run on the other, makes use of your other processor, alternatively you could tell it you have a 600MHz processor, rather than a 300 (if it works like that)

Cancer Research is a worthy cause, as is a cure for AIDS etc. However with the amount of funding cancer recieves (just look at breast cancer) they can afford the Cray supercomputers etc. and have little comparative need for Distributed Computing, while searching for prime numbers, or extraterestial signals are not something high on the list of funding, useful as they may be.

[Elbonio]

what can we use prime numbers for?

<edit>

apart from maths exams

[WhiteKnight]

Originally posted by Antoine
Cancer Research is a worthy cause, as is a cure for AIDS etc. However with the amount of funding cancer recieves (just look at breast cancer) they can afford the Cray supercomputers etc. and have little comparative need for Distributed Computing, while searching for prime numbers, or extraterestial signals are not something high on the list of funding, useful as they may be. Erm, i wouldnt call 1.6 million CPUs a comparative figure ?!

The Global Meta Processor platform is currently over 23,000 times more powerful than my single P3 1ghz... even if you multiply up the processor speed... i doubt a cray, or even 10 could come close to that sort of power.

The do get a lot of funding and for good reason, its a good cause..

The point is, yes, looking for ET is fun, and numbers might be interesting, but currently, this is the only project that is confronting a real world problem, and one that kills hundreds of thousands of people every year.

I know where my CPU time is going... i`d like to think you`d help out too.

But the choice is yours.

[WhiteKnight]

Originally posted by Elbonio
what can we use prime numbers for?actually... thats somthng i`d like to know... :rolleyes:

[Elbonio]

well put

[Antoine]

i personally rate the chances of sucess for finding a magic bullet for cancer on a computer as very very very low.

Im virtually certain that a single Cray could find possibles much faster than they can test them in a lab, its a shot in the dark, at best. Especially since there are so many different types of cancer.

I think we would be better off using computers for things we can find such as Prime Numbers, which we know are out there, rather than hoping wildly for a cure for cancer, etc. and leave it to those in labs to sort for possibles.

If we all quit smoking it would be a much better way of eliminating cancer.

[Elbonio]

Originally posted by Antoine

I think we would be better off using computers for things we can find such as Prime Numbers, which we know are out there, rather than hoping wildly for a cure for cancer, etc. and leave it to those in labs to sort for possibles.


So instead of finding a cure to a disease which kills thousands you want to find some numbers? The labs are also busy trawling through data trying to find the solution - they'll get it done much quicker if we help.

Originally posted by Antoine

If we all quit smoking it would be a much better way of eliminating cancer.

i dont think i've ever heard a statement as broad sweeping and ignorant as that one.

smoking does not cause all forms of cancer. smoking only causes lung cancer.

not all of us smoke - so we cant ALL quit smoking.

[MONK]

True.


But it would not hurt...... and cut down on cancer from smoking....

Ok if you want projects that give results with out question…..

SETI – Hydrogen map (Although some time will be spent on other less certain issues)

And may I add William Hill has raised the odds to 50 – 1 of finding alien life

Protein folding – Useful without question to want to know more go to there site, just grab a unit cacher.

Primes are used in encryption and stuff in eng but it's main use is in number theory and lets not forget Maths and it has done a few things for us.

If we get another Maths rush like around the 1900's then it could get very interesting very fast!

And remeber there are other projects out there just remember OGR....

[Elbonio]

yeah i dont have too much of a problem with SETI becuase i run that simultaneously with UD finding cancer

but really cancer is more important than maths... unless maths ultimately would help cure cancer but i dont see how that would work by finding prime numbers...

[TelexStar]

Originally posted by Elbonio

So instead of finding a cure to a disease which kills thousands you want to find some numbers? The labs are also busy trawling through data trying to find the solution - they'll get it done much quicker if we help.

i dont think i've ever heard a statement as broad sweeping and ignorant as that one.


Hold on a minute. i agree that searching for a cure for cancer is important, in response to Antoine . .
I think we would be better off using computers for things we can find such as Prime Numbers, which we know are out there, rather than hoping wildly for a cure for cancer, etc. and leave it to those in labs to sort for possibles.
Someone might have said the same thing about small pox back in the time when there was no cure! - thats a bit narrow minded.


But Elbonio - saying that the SETI search is not worthy and you *should* be helping the search for cancer is just ridiculas! By that ruling every industry and scientific reasearch should stop what they are doing and concentrate on Cancer research. - we'd never achieve anything.

[Elbonio]

Originally posted by Elbonio
yeah i dont have too much of a problem with SETI becuase i run that simultaneously with UD finding cancer



....

[Bob^^]

Originally posted by Antoine
i personally rate the chances of sucess for finding a magic bullet for cancer on a computer as very very very low.

Im virtually certain that a single Cray could find possibles much faster than they can test them in a lab, its a shot in the dark, at best. Especially since there are so many different types of cancer.


You == ignorant.

Yes. One cray could probably find a cure *eventually*. But why wait that long, when there's *millions* of PCs sitting doing sod all with their CPU time all day and night. Why not harness the power of these idle CPU cycles, and put them towards finding a cure for cancer *faster*. And how much do you think a Cray system actually costs? These researchers don't make much money, there's probably no way they could afford a cray, so much cheaper to write some distributed software and borrow your CPU for a bit.

So do a little bit of thinking, working out prime numbers, yes ok whatever, that might be useful to maybe two or three people, but cancer is by far more important. One third of people will contract some form of cancer at some point in their lifes, iirc. Wouldn't you rather get a cure for it before it strikes you or a loved one?

[Elbonio]

exactly


i personally dont see the point in putting even my spare cpu time towards prime numbers

i do see the point in cancer and SETI

so i run the both... thats the way i get round it

however if it were only possible for me to run one i would obviously choose cancer research... then SETI as next priority... then i would probably rather have some sort of amusing screensaver like jonny castaway as my third choice...

[Antoine]

another argument, many of you will not like this one.

Cancer typically affects older people, people who have lived their lives, there are cases of younger people being affected, but theis is a lot less common. Also Half of ALL medical expenditure on you is typically in the last year of your life, maybe instead of all turning into clock-watchers trying to squeeze an extra few days or years out of life, we should try and improve the quality of life within the rest of the persons life, and other peoples lives, ratrher than trying to let an 80 year old get in 2 or 3 more years, prehaps we shoulkd give the people suffering from drought and famine a chance of life?

Spending a lot of money on cancer could cure a few more people but much more benefit to everyone as a whole could be made doing things such as improving the environment, and the world in general, rather than aiming to get another year for ourselves.

"i dont think i've ever heard a statement as broad sweeping and ignorant as that one.

smoking does not cause all forms of cancer. smoking only causes lung cancer.

not all of us smoke - so we cant ALL quit smoking."

All meant all of us as a society, but smoking also causes cancer of the mouth and throat, and various other cancers, and then we get onto passive smoking and the other problems with smoking (heart disease etc). All the deaths that could be prevented are quite significant, more so than bit of spending on cancer is likely to do.

And as for this statement

"You == ignorant.

Yes. One cray could probably find a cure *eventually*. But why wait that long, when there's *millions* of PCs sitting doing sod all with their CPU time all day and night. Why not harness the power of these idle CPU cycles, and put them towards finding a cure for cancer *faster*. And how much do you think a Cray system actually costs? These researchers don't make much money, there's probably no way they could afford a cray, so much cheaper to write some distributed software and borrow your CPU for a bit.

So do a little bit of thinking, working out prime numbers, yes ok whatever, that might be useful to maybe two or three people, but cancer is by far more important. One third of people will contract some form of cancer at some point in their lifes, iirc. Wouldn't you rather get a cure for it before it strikes you or a loved one?"

No i think it is you that is ignorant, yes i agree people should use their spare CPU cycles, thats why i was trying to find something worthy. But i find it unlikely that a computer coudl find a cure, it can find possibles, bnut it cannot, especially home computers, determine if something IS sucessful, what is needed there is scientific experimentation, a single cray could find "possibles" much faster than the poeples in labs can test them, its ok getting your computer to process 500 pages of information to print, but why do this all at once if your printer only prints one page per minute. Why not instead have a buffer of things to test, rather than a huge list, in this way other things such as SETI, prime numbers and other developments can be acommodated.

What happesns if we beat cancer? then we move onto the next, eventually people are sat in a home, too frail to do anything, wrapped in cotton wool, wearing masks to keep them alive, quality of life must be apalling, cancer research is something that should be done, but we shouldnt devpote all our resources to it, i think developing scienctific and mathematical knowlege is just as important, probably more so. Cancer alread has hit my family, but instead of being so emotional, why not give it a little thought, which you claim to have done, if it wasnt cancer, then it may hjave been a car accident, ban all cars then, if not if may have been an illness such as pneumonia, so wrap everyone in cotton wool, where does it end? There are many dangers in this world, you ARE going to die from something at some point, fair enough search for cures, but dont become obsessed, else before you know it people will be living for year upon year, with an awful quality of life, unable to actually do anything. Hence i support Euthenasia, abortion, and other such things that improve quality of life, sometimes you have to know when to let go.

If any of you have seen the outer limits with the billionaire who is trying to get a mechanical heart developed so he can live a little longer, may understand more.

Might i also add that smallpox wasnt cured using a computer, it was cured by observations that people who had contracted cowpox didnt catch smallpox, it is things like this that we need. Computers have their part, but computers cant do everything.

as for SETI, for all my life i have believed in Aliens,, its unconcieveable that there isnt something out there...... or is it? around 2 weeks ago i actually started to question this - if there are things out there, why cant we see evidence of it, the universe seems to be empty, with the length of the usiverses lifespan, surely any species would have colonised the entire universse by now as the time it would take to do that is insignificant considering the age of the universe. So now im not so sure, but SETI is a worthy project i would say, so we can find out one way or another.

[Big Giant Head]

you might also note that 100+ years ago, cases of cancer were almost non-existant, its a modern disease and no one really know what causes it, something we've done to this planet does, things like pollution, smoking, asbestos don't help but there's something screwed up going on

[Antoine]

NOTE: the doubts iu have about alien life are called Fermis paradox, it was actually on seti.org that i read about it, they have adone a three part investigation of it, i would read them, they certainly made me think.

[Antoine]

Originally posted by - Big Giant Head -
you might also note that 100+ years ago, cases of cancer were almost non-existant, its a modern disease and no one really know what causes it, something we've done to this planet does, things like pollution, smoking, asbestos don't help but there's something screwed up going on

good point, i would say that as we live longer, instead of dieing from things which are now cureable, or preventable, we are living longer so out bodies actually have a chance to turn on themselves, when they would be dead already in the past. Saying that car fumes, factory emissions, George Bush, the Olsen twins, sesame street and other modern abominations probably dont help.

Absbestos is interesting, i read an article somewhere that said how most asbestos is fine, only a certain type is harmful, but it is a very useful material, it insulatres, is fire retardent, and has other useful properties.

[Cabe]

Originally posted by Antoine

ratrher than trying to let an 80 year old get in 2 or 3 more years,

Spending a lot of money on cancer could cure a few more people but much more benefit to everyone as a whole could be made doing things such as improving the environment, and the world in general, rather than aiming to get another year for ourselves.



say that again?

This time take into account that you have watched you mothers best friend die slowly from cancer at the age of 40.

She had Lung, Bowel + Breast.

Oh and she smoked, but then so does the other coupla hundred million in this world, not all of them die from cancer.

Shut up and stop being such a compleat twat.

[Elbonio]

i couldnt agree more abouty your policy on smoking i totally agree

i hate smoking. they're cancer sitcks.

look at Roy Castle - he died becuase of passive smoking.


an interesting theory about leaving the old ones to die but cancer doesnt just affect older people - the cases in younger people are a lot more than you think

a high profile example would be Andy Kaufman - he died in his 30's from a rare form of lung cancer (not caused by smoking).

i know that my pc isnt going to find "the cure" one day... but it can help play a small part to getting rid of the possibilities that we know are not the cure.. giving these supercomputers and scientists less to do.


I am also a believer in alien life - there must be something out there. I am as eager about SETI as anyone else which is why i run it.


What happesns if we beat cancer? then we move onto the next, eventually people are sat in a home, too frail to do anything, wrapped in cotton wool, wearing masks to keep them alive, quality of life must be apalling, cancer research is something that should be done, but we shouldnt devpote all our resources to it, i think developing scienctific and mathematical knowlege is just as important, probably more so. Cancer alread has hit my family, but instead of being so emotional, why not give it a little thought, which you claim to have done, if it wasnt cancer, then it may hjave been a car accident, ban all cars then, if not if may have been an illness such as pneumonia, so wrap everyone in cotton wool, where does it end?

you cant seriously say we should NOT prevent people from dying of cancer?

anyway i think we've said all we can say on this subject really...


if you wanna go search for prime numbers then you do that.. i'll stick to SETI and cancer... hey at least this way they all get done!

[Bob^^]

/me strokes Elbonio

:)

exactly :)

[WhiteKnight]

Blimey.. this is turning into a holy war...

look, there are many worthy causes... some consider some more importent than others..

All that matters is that you help out where you can.

TBH, i, and aparently most of MPUK consider Cancer research to a more worthy cause than SETI, but thats our choice.

You do your thing, we`ll do ours.

[Antoine]

Originally posted by Cabe

Shut up and stop being such a compleat twat.

ok this IS going too far, when stupid comments like that start coming out, just because i disagree with you on the importance of helping people live a little longer over giving other people the chance of life does not mean you should start throwing insults around.

Originally posted by Cabe
Oh and she smoked, but then so does the other coupla hundred million in this world, not all of them die from cancer.

i know its sucks that people die, i know this, you know this, we all know this, but dont take it out on me. You think i dont know people who have died? i have had family members die from cancer, but its not the only killer in the world, about 2 years ago a man i knew for several years and used to go to football training with collapsed in the middle of a match and died, he was 35, he had a heart condition that no-one knew about, it would have been treatable if only he had known. My dad's best man died at 38 in an accident in the mine where he worked, he left behind a wife and two young daughters. Its crap, i know this, but it doesnt mean that we should suddenly all try and stop people dying and devote all research to this. If people dont die from one thing, they will die from another, its a fact of life. Its even worse when it is preventable, but does this mean we should go out and bubble wrap the entire world? no it doesnt, smoking may kill people, and its awful that it does this, but if people want to do this who are we to stop them. They know the risks as well as you do but its their right to choose their own fate.

We will all die at some point, i am not against research to try and prevent this, but when this research is the main research there is something wrong, as i have said, people who develop cancer have usually lived their life, rather than devoting all research to try and extending life (there are exceptions, there always are, eg. i think it was neil harris trhe millwall striker who developed testicular cancer at about aged 20), but i believe everyone should have the chance of life, the best project i believe would be to test genetic combinations for GM seeds that allow plants to grow in low water areas such as afghanistan, and africa, you have seen the TV pictures as much as i have, yes it sucks that people are dying from cancer, but the amount of people who are dying from things that are even more pereventable is worse, the amount of under 5s dying from lack of medical care, and the number of people dying from malnutrition in africa is horrible, even if people arent dying, they are suffering far more than peopel wioth cancer or AIDS in the west are.

some people dont even have the basic things in life, food, shelter and warmth, even basic medical care is lacking in many places. I believe that more benefit is gaining from developoing science to help these people, and actually helping these people that giving your mums friend who died from cancer which it could be argued is self inflicted, a few more years after an already plesent life. In the UK we hav no idea of poverty any more, now we have relative poverty, this is peope who cant afford the latest designer clothes, etc. No-one with the welfare system in the UK should be starving, but in places like Ethiopia people are living in ABSOLUTE poverty, ie they have NOTHING. This inequality i believe is one which should be sorted out before we start trying to make ourselves godlike and live forever.

[WhiteKnight]

FYI..

Testicular cancer is most prevelant in men between the ages of 20 and 30, hardly what i would call "lived their life".

And Leukemia (sp?) is a childhood form of cancer and is the one that UD initially targeted. (i`m unsure if they are still doing so)

Breast cancer will normally strike any woman (or man tho its much less likely) from puberty onwards.

And skin cancer is something that everyone should worry about.

I`m not saying that EVERYONE should stop what they are doing and find a cure. I am saying that you shouldnt try and disuade people from helping a very good cause, to just look for numbers or aliens.

If nobody looked for cures, we`d still be dieing of the black death.

So, you search for your aliens or silly numbers, and we`ll go make ourselves healthy :D

Each to their own.

[piddle spank]

Originally posted by Antoine
another argument, many of you will not like this one.

Cancer typically affects older people, people who have lived their lives, there are cases of younger people being affected, but theis is a lot less common. Also Half of ALL medical expenditure on you is typically in the last year of your life, maybe instead of all turning into clock-watchers trying to squeeze an extra few days or years out of life, we should try and improve the quality of life within the rest of the persons life, and other peoples lives, ratrher than trying to let an 80 year old get in 2 or 3 more years, prehaps we shoulkd give the people suffering from drought and famine a chance of life?

Spending a lot of money on cancer could cure a few more people but much more benefit to everyone as a whole could be made doing things such as improving the environment, and the world in general, rather than aiming to get another year for ourselves.


my mum got cancer at 42, i would hardly say she was one of those "people who have lived their lives". imagine what its like being told your mum has 40 days to live! if someone had told me then there was anything with even the remoist possablity of a cure and that i could have helped i would have! luckly she got through it and is around today but still when your 8 it scared the **** outta me. dying from cancer is very slow and painfullway to die.

[RocketKnight]

smoking does not cause all forms of cancer. smoking only causes lung cancer
Wrong. Very, very wrong. As well as lung cancer, smoking can also cause oral cancer (e.g. lips and tongue), and cancer of the larynx, bladder, kidney, esophagus, pancreas and stomach to name but a few. The following statistics are American, but you'll get the idea:

"Smoking causes fully one sixth of all deaths in the United States each year -- more than alcohol, all illicit drugs, AIDS, guns, automobiles, and all forms of air pollution COMBINED."

"Of the estimated 472,000 deaths each year from cancer, 30 percent -- over 140,000 -- are caused by smoking. A smoker increases his chance of getting cancer by 100 percent (2 times), and a heavy smoker increases his chances by 200-300 percent (3-4 times)."

If we all quit smoking it would be a much better way of eliminating cancer.
I don't think that sounds like such an "ignorant" statement, eh Elbonio? It may be unlikely to happen, and it certainly wouldn't eliminate ALL cancer, but I think it makes a lot of sense to try and massively cut down on the numbers of people getting cancer through smoking. Having a cure is wonderful news for people who get cancer through no fault of their own, but I would rather all those thousands of smokers don't bring it upon themselves, and instead stay healthy in the first place. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need a cure for cancer.

[Elbonio]

i know smoking kills a lot of people. i hate smoking with a passion i really do. i agree it is in the top 3 problems the NHS has to deal with.

It was just the way antoine said it - as if we all smoked and that if we all stopped then it would elimnate all cancer which just inst true. i found a very broad sweeping statement

[Embattle]

/ROFL Prime numbers