Fibre Optic for the UK - Please Sign

[g5guru]

Hello all, there has been a petition started on the governments website that could effect most (if not all) UK users of the internet; the petition reads:

LINK: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/fibrenetwork/

"Both the government and Ofcom are aware of the fact that the UK's broadband infrastructure is fast becoming woefully-inadequate. ISPs are throttling access to cope with demand, resulting in a degraded experience for consumers which is often nowhere near the speeds advertised. Not only does this constitute misleading advertising - it is a shameful situation for a developed nation that wishes to be at the forefront of scientific and technological progress. We need only look across the water to Sweden and other European nations where access speeds are ten times those in the UK to see how far behind we are lagging.

Working with the existing, outdated copper infrastructure is no longer satisfactory - even ADSL 2+ will not be able to deliver the speeds promised with current demand. If we wish to remain competitive, we must invest immediately in a brand new, nationwide, fibre-optic network for the future.

This petition asks that government prioritise and facilitate this process, working closely with the regulator and an often-lethargic, profit-centric industry, in order to make this network a reality, and push the UK to the cutting edge of innovation."

This is based on an interview from BT, in which they stated that they would happily provide a fibre optic infastructure for the UK, and afterwards every UK household would be able to attain speeds of 50mb/s or greater.

If you could sign and support, it would be greatly appriciated.

Many thanks,

TCM.K-OS

Edit: I understand the link might help LOL: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/fibrenetwork/

[Hg]

link?

[Bowser]

I was on the understanding the BT had no intention of rolling fibre out accross the UK as it would be to expensive (although it needs to be done sometime!!!) BT putting its faith into ADSL2+ is clearly not the way.

WIFI Max could be one possible avenue for our future needs?

I have heard recently there's a company rolling fibre out via the sewer systems which makes perfect sense as there wouldn't be much need for digging and disruption to the public. But again this will take years to accomplish and by then would it be to late?

[SENT]

fibre optics is a rubbish idea
it only last 30 years which is a lot less than copper ...

[KingDaveRa]

Ah yes, but I think BT have a tendency to use blown fibre. Once the ducting is in place, it's a relatively simple job to blow a new fibre down the duct. So in 30 years time, they can very simply replace what's there.

Of course, it's not gunna happen.

[[TRS]Scotteh]

The idea at the moment is that they will be using existing underground piping to roll out fibre as it will be a lot cheaper using the piping already there instead of digging up the roads in order to lay fibre.

However when this process actually starts I don't know, sooner the better in my opinion but considering we live in the UK where they take their time with everything....who knows.

[g5guru]

Heres the link: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/fibrenetwork/

Can't believe i forgot that :O

[SENT]

the "outdated copper network" we have now work brilliantly and has lots of bandwidth left and room for expansion as the exchanges get upgraded.

I have perfect 16 mb internet here in blackpool because SKY upgraded our exchange.
this is far more cost effective and thus more likley to happen.

every company that has rolled out fibre optics has gone bust so none will do it, asking the government to throw away the money (OUR money) on this is not right. id rather have better schools parks and policing not to mention cheaper petrol.

On my list of priorities of government spending id rather the nursing homes would be saved and the schools they are closing and post offices and hospitals etc.. Posher internet isnt needed and when it is, private companies will make it at there expense like they have here where i live.

[Jez_Gafys]

In the July issue of pc pro they were talking about exceeding 50mb on copper connections showing that copper is far from dead.

[Jamz]

every company that has rolled out fibre optics has gone bust so none will do it,


Virgin Media?!

[g5guru]

I can understand why people currently experiencing fast internet would not complain, but not all of us atm can get it. I'm having to struggle with a 1.5mb line that times me out every hour. Epic fail.

[Freelance]

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp

[SENT]

Virgin Media?!

they bought an existing network, 2 actually, both NTL and telewest who "built the network" went bust and virgin bought the pieces and made a new viable company.

[SENT]

I can understand why people currently experiencing fast internet would not complain, but not all of us atm can get it. I'm having to struggle with a 1.5mb line that times me out every hour. Epic fail.

If you live in the sticks it will be 2050 before you get fibreoptics if they started tomorrow.

you can get 2.8mb using a 3g broadband data card..

[Jamz]

they bought an existing network, 2 actually, both NTL and telewest who "built the network" went bust and virgin bought the pieces and made a new viable company.

Wrong, Virgin Merged with them but before they did they made sure that they both improved profits so NTL were not bust at any stage.

[g5guru]

link pls pls?

[Tsung]

I will... not be signing that petition, it appears to be a lot of Wahh Wahh at the problem with no realistic solution. Unless the solution wanted is a nationally run fibre optic cable network as the petition suggests. I would hate to think what sort of costs are involved with building it. (which ofc we would all have to pay for).

The other issue with the petition is the wording; phrases like "often-lethargic, profit-centric industry" shows personal opinions are involved. Do the undersigned really want the government to work with "often-lethargic, profit-centric industry" like the petition suggests? or would they rather they worked with "the industry"?

Some evidence (links?, references?) for the first part of the petition would also be nice. Where is the evidence that "Both the government and Ofcom are aware of the fact that the UK's broadband infrastructure is fast becoming woefully-inadequate."?.. With no evidence included in the petition all I have is rumour.

Sorry but this On-line petition is not worth the paper it is written on.

[g5guru]

3G coverage, is half my garden but not my house... LAME

[g5guru]

I did not write that petition, it was written by someone else, so you will have to attempt to get in contact with him for that evidence.

[tiSSue]

I think what they really want is consumer fibre to the home that is affordable.... There is alot of fibre out there at the moment via BT, Colt, Global Crossing, Virgin Media [ntl / tw] et all. However the estimated cost of bringing fibre to consumers, on a scale of ADSL at the moment is approx £20bn. Money well spent? I think not.

[SENT]

Guru i feel for you having pants internet but basically moving is the only option that is going to work within a short time period. unless your loaded and can have an sdsl live fitted to your house ..

[g5guru]

LAN ftw i think... tad cheaper

[Dentist]

Ask4 Internet rolled out fibre in Leicester thro the sewers and haven't gone bust. They do provide shockingly nice connections too :)

[Tsung]

Yes sorry im not having a go at you g5guru, it's the whole "internet petitions can make a difference" that annoys me.

To be fair, if you want quicker internet access you are going to have to do more than just sign an online petition. There is satalite broadband (but it's expensive and not ideal for gaming), SDSL (expensive) or you could try and organise something within you village (assuming you live in a smallish village) and split the costs. Send a letter to your MP if you want to try and get the government to do something about it.

To be fair it's the way of the world, 10 years ago people could only get 56k speeds, and broadband was only available in major cities. Nowadays I cannot get cable or LLU broadband so I have to "suffer" with 6mb where others who live in bigger cities get the faster speed. I accept that due to where I live, and also accept if I really want faster speeds now, I'd have to move. :/

[Jez_Gafys]

they bought an existing network, 2 actually, both NTL and telewest who "built the network" went bust and virgin bought the pieces and made a new viable company.

Even then it wasn't NTL/Telewest network? Wasn't it originally Cable & Wireless who layed and funded the infrastructure?

[g5guru]

Small village near buy (about 15 minutes drive away), but im literally in middle of nowhere. :(

Would be intresting to see if we cud get the locals to do what the scottish in some places are: huge sataliete so everyone gets 10mb wireless... but again i dont know costs :( Probaly too much.

If anyone knows solutions, and prices, please post them thx.

TCM.K-OS

Edit: No Sewers here, I live on a lane with wobbly telephone poles holding my connection - with trees repeatively distrupting it.

[ez64]

Even with 10mb each your still going to get 600ms +,I doubt you will be in a 3g area so that will be a no no. Probably best to have your own sat.

[TheDon]

they bought an existing network, 2 actually, both NTL and telewest who "built the network" went bust and virgin bought the pieces and made a new viable company.

As Jamz has stated, neither went bust. And both were actually the result of many mergers of smaller companies who actually built the network anyway (Diamond, cabletel, comcast, atlantic, cable london, to name but a few).

AFAIK at no stage during the formation of Virgin Media have ANY of the companies gone bust, and as a legacy of that VM still holds the unpaid debts incured when every piece of cable on their network was laid. All that has happened is small local companies have merged bringing their networks together to form a national one because it is the logical way of cutting costs and increasing profitability. The small regional cable operators couldn't compete with sky, so had to keep merging until they could.

[g5guru]

Ye, 3G here covers half my garden, but not the house... So big fail.

Costs of Satalite? Connection speed likely? Info's pls :)

[Tsung]

You see here is the problem, I googled UK Satalite Broadband and ended up with a page with a load of suppliers on it. You need to look yourself, but here is one.

http://www.beyondsl.net/openskylimits.htm

I've linked to their page which explains the pro / cons of Satalite broadband. The information is out there, you just need to look. (looking at that it isnt much quicker than 1mb) :/

[porsche]

...or just forget about this internet thing, the fad will die out soon...

[Shazz]

Oh look, another petition the government will completely ignore ;)

[webvictim]

the "outdated copper network" we have now work brilliantly and has lots of bandwidth left and room for expansion as the exchanges get upgraded.

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. Copper is ancient technology now - we're only working with it because it's the only thing that most households have by default. Saying it "works brilliantly" is tripe - it works, just about. It's heavily limited by distance and subject to many problems owing to the convoluted routes it sometimes takes.

I have perfect 16 mb internet here in blackpool because SKY upgraded our exchange. this is far more cost effective and thus more likley to happen.

There are still a very large number of exchanges that haven't been unbundled, and just because you live close enough to one to get a decent speed doesn't mean that everyone will.

every company that has rolled out fibre optics has gone bust so none will do it

As someone mentioned before, Virgin Media/NTL/Telewest? They seem to be doing alright for themselves, being the second largest internet provider in the UK.

asking the government to throw away the money (OUR money) on this is not right. id rather have better schools parks and policing not to mention cheaper petrol.

To a certain extent, I would also rather have these things, but think about it this way. If the speed of internet to homes was increased (mainly the upload speed) then home working would be a better and much more viable option for many people who currently work in offices. You could get genuinely decent VoIP connections to homes for inter-office calls, high-speed VPNs for shared content... the list goes on. That would save a lot of money on commuting, not to mention helping to cut pollution and reducing the drain on fuel for cars.

On my list of priorities of government spending id rather the nursing homes would be saved and the schools they are closing and post offices and hospitals etc.. Posher internet isnt needed and when it is, private companies will make it at there expense like they have here where i live.

"Posher" internet is hardly the way I would describe it - I would say that it would merely be bringing our country's infrastructure up to a similar level to that of other European countries. Someone has already mentioned Sweden as a prime example. With the increasing amount of online video streaming services and content sharing, it's no longer a question of -wanting- faster internet - it's becoming an actual necessity.

[markybabyz1300]

If you live in the sticks it will be 2050 before you get fibreoptics if they started tomorrow.

you can get 2.8mb using a 3g broadband data card..

I get 512k ,I live in Essex, the data card would be great for me and a lot faster, sadly with the usual 3 gig allowance by the time I have watched a history documentary on Iplayer and listened to radio fours shipping broadcast I would nothing left to download my German scat movies

[kandy]

I concur, 3G cards are rubbish for downloading filth with.

[markybabyz1300]

I concur, 3G cards are rubbish for downloading filth with.

you are so right, lets start a new petition on the government site, unlimited 3g filth allowance now.
In less than two hours I could be enjoying "the boys from the brownstuff"

[Mu5icMan]

4g anyone?

Peak download rates of 326.4 Mbit/s for 4x4 antennas, 172.8 Mbit/s for 2x2 antennas for every 20 MHz of spectrum

[ez64]

4g anyone?

Peak download rates of 326.4 Mbit/s for 4x4 antennas, 172.8 Mbit/s for 2x2 antennas for every 20 MHz of spectrum

With caps that mean a second of downloads mean your fuked :)

[bvark]

With the increasing amount of online video streaming services and content sharing, it's no longer a question of -wanting- faster internet - it's becoming an actual necessity.

Online video streaming and content sharing in at home look mostly like entertainment to me, thus "necessity" is a bit strong

Would rather my money went on other public goods than entertainment.

[blackbabyjesus]

3g is tripe, as is HSDPA, I'm using it now and it's no solution at all.

and before you ask, yes, I have excellent signal strength, however the connection still times out regularly and I have never ever had a latency less than 400ms. all to be expected from a mobile wireless solution of course, but to offer it as an alternative to a real internet connection is folly.

also, e-petitions are a waste of time, noone will read it, noone will care, stop wasting the tiny amount of bandwidth copper provides with this trivial bull****.

[blackbabyjesus]

double post fail. see how **** it is! I have to hammer every button a million times!

[Afty]

If the speed of internet to homes was increased (mainly the upload speed) then home working would be a better and much more viable option for many people who currently work in offices.Not for any sustained period of time. The speed of internet connections is definitely NOT a major impediment to home working.

[Afty]

This is based on an interview from BT, in which they stated that they would happily provide a fibre optic infastructure for the UK, If that's true, and they're happy to do that, then why do we need to petition the government?

Errr, wait a sec are you suggesting the government should PAY for this? Do you pay tax?

[RTO]

I think someone should start a petition on the Government website urging them to pay attention to the petitions site and start acting on them immediately.

[Quietus]

But where would we send the petition to get the government to pay attention to the petition to get the government to pay attention to the petitions site?

[Georgecooldude]

There is absolutely no point going with fibre until carrier links are upgraded and users get more than a 50:1 contention ratio...

Lets get everyone a 1:1 2mbit connection via copper first.

[Mastacheif]

Even with 10mb each your still going to get 600ms +,I doubt you will be in a 3g area so that will be a no no. Probably best to have your own sat.

i get around 260ms to amsterdam gaming server on t-mobile 3g and around a 2.3mbit connection

[Elkeeed]

There is absolutely no point going with fibre until carrier links are upgraded and users get more than a 50:1 contention ratio...

Lets get everyone a 1:1 2mbit connection via copper first.

What he said. My line which is perfectly capable of 4mbps never gets those speeds anymore, at best it is back down to 1mbps at worst it is painful to load a simple webpage during busy times.

Not for any sustained period of time. The speed of internet connections is definitely NOT a major impediment to home working.

Bandwidth is an impediment to home working. Not because you are unable to do the work across it necessarily but because of the inebility to communicate well at the same time. Decent videoconferencing that didn't interfere with the work that you were doing would be a good start.

[Squaggs]

they said the internet would never catch on.....

[oxy]

its not going to happen its too expensive and provides no LLU access, as all the fibre would be BTs which breaks offcom regulations.

Fibre to the kerb is the really only viable yet extremely expensive option and have the "last mile" as copper.

[SENT]

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. Copper is ancient technology now - we're only working with it because it's the only thing that most households have by default. Saying it "works brilliantly" is tripe - it works, just about. It's heavily limited by distance and subject to many problems owing to the convoluted routes it sometimes takes.

Seriously copper last forever fibre optics degrade and need replacing, there is enough bandwidth in the copper but it is used for business MPLS networks for secure and Voip comunications, all this on ancient copper network built in victorian times ..

There are still a very large number of exchanges that haven't been unbundled, and just because you live close enough to one to get a decent speed doesn't mean that everyone will.


When they get round to it you will be happy

As someone mentioned before, Virgin Media/NTL/Telewest? They seem to be doing alright for themselves, being the second largest internet provider in the UK.

telewest went bust with 30 billion debts NTL got bought out b4 it went bust . only virgin remains

To a certain extent, I would also rather have these things, but think about it this way. If the speed of internet to homes was increased (mainly the upload speed) then home working would be a better and much more viable option for many people who currently work in offices. You could get genuinely decent VoIP connections to homes for inter-office calls, high-speed VPNs for shared content... the list goes on. That would save a lot of money on commuting, not to mention helping to cut pollution and reducing the drain on fuel for cars.

there is a plan in progress already and when they upgrade your exchange you will have this. Changing the plan now isnt a good idea

"Posher" internet is hardly the way I would describe it - I would say that it would merely be bringing our country's infrastructure up to a similar level to that of other European countries. Someone has already mentioned Sweden as a prime example. With the increasing amount of online video streaming services and content sharing, it's no longer a question of -wanting- faster internet - it's becoming an actual necessity.


I agree it should be faster, the biggest area for improvement would be faster decision making and better public information about the plan, but there is a plan ..

[Shazz]

I agree it should be faster, the biggest area for improvement would be faster decision making and better public information about the plan, but there is a plan ..

Copper lasts as long as it remains in the ground, and hasn't been stolen ;)

And NTL/Telewest technically never went bankrupt, they filed for chapter 11 and where successfully refinanced , and kept afloat by it's bankers. If they went "bust" as you say, they wouldn't be in existence any more ;)

I'd also love to find where you got 30 billion from, as they only had $18bn of debts, roughly £9bn or so.

[Kaution]

DownStream Connection Speed 24574 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 1395 kbps

This is with a copper line. I am not on the Pro package eitherso could get 2.4mb Upload if i wanted :)

Bethere.co.uk - I don't think Copper is dead just yet and it could potentially do alot better things in a few years time, only issue is it doesnt give these sorts of speeds for everyone :(

[ez64]

Same but you would swap upload for download and thats what ive done since it is worth it with a lot of PC's attached.

[Afty]

Decent videoconferencing that didn't interfere with the work that you were doing would be a good start.Decent videoconferencing is no substitute for actually being in the office. There are far too many communication and social impediments to working from home for most roles involving any real communication with team members or management.

[TheDon]

And NTL/Telewest technically never went bankrupt, they filed for chapter 11 and where successfully refinanced , and kept afloat by it's bankers. If they went "bust" as you say, they wouldn't be in existence any more ;)

I'd also love to find where you got 30 billion from, as they only had $18bn of debts, roughly £9bn or so.

Come on, lets not let facts get in the way of a decent argument.

I'm beginning to think that SENT is really elkeeed in disguise, he puts as much evidence into his bull**** claims as elkeeed does.

A quick lesson for SENT in what actually happened:

As Shazz said, NTL filed for chapter 11 because they were being crippled by £9bn in debt, and successfully restructured under chapter 11 protection to get their debt down to just over £3bn (as in, they didn't go bust)
Before the NTL:Telewest merger their debt was futher reduced to a mere £1.5bn (wow, debt being reduced? Another great sign of... not going bust!)

Telewest on the other hand didn't need to seek any bankruptcy protection, and successfully restructured all on their own. Again, without going bust.

After the merger (where NTL aquired telewest for £3bn) both companies debt was transfered to NTL:Telewest (well, technically Telewest's got paid off when NTL bought them out, and NTL:Telewest instead has NTL's debt + the cost of aquiring Telewest as debt instead). So, NTL (a company that didn't go bust) bought out Telewest (another company that didn't go bust) and renamed to NTL:Telewest, without either party ever going bust.

I also find it funny how SENT claims that NTL got bought out before they went bust, bought out by who exactly? And did anyone bother to tell the NTL directors who are still on the board? Or the NTL shareholders that held 75% of the shares in VM? They're going to be pretty pissed when they realise that they actually don't have shares in VM because someone bought them out without telling them!

For the uninformed out there (i.e. SENT) Virgin Media IS ntl:telewest, they are leasing the Virgin brand as part of their deal for virgin mobile. Virgin didn't buy the company out, neither has anyone else. Under the fancy new branding it's STILL ntl:telewest, with the same directors and the same shareholders.

[Elkeeed]

a) I am not SENT

b) my claims are based on facts, his are just made up

[bvark]

As Shazz said, NTL filed for chapter 11 because they were being crippled by £9bn in debt, and successfully restructured under chapter 11 protection to get their debt down to just over £3bn (as in, they didn't go bust)

Many people regard bankruptcy as equivalent to going bust. How your creditors and shareholders are shafted (ch 11 restructuring or ch 7 liquidation) is just semantics.

I also find it funny how SENT claims that NTL got bought out before they went bust, bought out by who exactly? And did anyone bother to tell the NTL directors who are still on the board?

One might also argue that a debt for equity swap that saw the bondholders take 95%+ of the equity in the company and several seats on the board constituted a buyout, and that happened to both NTL and Telewest.

While Barclay Knapp's turnaround was remarkable, to characterise these companies as anything other than financial disasters in the early 2000s is disingenious.

Of course, SENT didn't know any of this and most of his post was nonsense, but that's fairly typical for him.

[TheDon]

Many people regard bankruptcy as equivalent to going bust. How your creditors and shareholders are shafted (ch 11 restructuring or ch 7 liquidation) is just semantics.

Many people are foolish then ;)
For a company to go bust surely they have to seize all trading and face complete ruin?
If you can restructure and carry on trading then you haven't gone bust (IMO at least).

I guess it also depends on if you class converting debt into shares defaulting or not.

But that doesn't change the fact that whilst telewest restructured they didn't go anywhere near bankruptcy, and certainly didn't have anywhere near 30bn in debt when NTL bought them out.

One might also argue that a debt for equity swap that saw the bondholders take 95%+ of the equity in the company and several seats on the board constituted a buyout, and that happened to both NTL and Telewest.

While Barclay Knapp's turnaround was remarkable, to characterise these companies as anything other than financial disasters in the early 2000s is disingenious.

Of course, SENT didn't know any of this and most of his post was nonsense, but that's fairly typical for him.
You could argue that, and whilst semantically it could be classed as a buyout I highly doubt that SENT meant anything like that.

There's no doubt that they are pretty big financial disasters, but ultimately they turned out to be fairly managable ones. There is also no doubting the debt they've still got is going to hold them back for a long time. They both got suckered into the "buy every local cable operator we can" bubble and ultimately ended up overpaying for them and then suffering when the market collapsed.
It's really the inflated cost of their many mergers that has resulted in this situation though, rather than the initial cost to deploy the infrastructure like SENT was claiming.

They are both textbook examples of the dangers of rapid expansion through acquisition.

[kalleth]

Ask4 Internet rolled out fibre in Leicester thro the sewers and haven't gone bust. They do provide shockingly nice connections too :)

I have ask4 in my private-run uni halls. 10meg up/down solid, it's never gone down, i've never had any issues with it, and its never been shaped.

Utterly perfect net and we need it everywhere.

[ez64]

But since when is that for normal internet users a substational enough improvement over copper.

[Afty]

But since when is that for normal internet users a substational enough improvement over copper."Normal" internet users don't need an improvement over copper.

[webvictim]

I agree it should be faster, the biggest area for improvement would be faster decision making and better public information about the plan, but there is a plan ..
Learn to use the quote system, please. It's not hard, and it makes it a lot easier for me to reply to you.

My exchange has actually been unbundled already, but I live 1600m away from it so I can't get the same amazingly high speeds as some others do. I'd probably get 16mbit or so on Be where I am now, but my point is that there are a lot of people in more remote locations who couldn't.

[AdamR]

According to these random calculators that take your current speed and attenuation my ADSL2+ speed would be the same as my current ADSL Max speed, which has now gone down to 1.5 megabits.

There are countrysides with better broadband than me, I'm in some Cardiff suburbs. My brother a mile away gets 128 kilobits (160k sync).

[Breath]

Bearing in mind copper can carry adsl upto 55megabits (as was told to me in a recent meeting with Entanet's CTO), so its not dead just yet!

[webvictim]

Bearing in mind copper can carry adsl upto 55megabits (as was told to me in a recent meeting with Entanet's CTO), so its not dead just yet!
Yeah, but it's all theoretical isn't it? It's been proven that you can do 100mbit up/down on copper pairs via VDSL, but it's only good over 300 metres. Only about 5% of the population live within 300 metres of an exchange - it's about the same proportion of Be users who can actually get the full 24mbit where they live.

Until we can deliver the same speeds to everyone, it's all pretty irrelevant.

[Breath]

Yeah, but it's all theoretical isn't it? It's been proven that you can do 100mbit up/down on copper pairs via VDSL, but it's only good over 300 metres. Only about 5% of the population live within 300 metres of an exchange - it's about the same proportion of Be users who can actually get the full 24mbit where they live.

Until we can deliver the same speeds to everyone, it's all pretty irrelevant.

The words "just wait and see what's happening at the end of the year" were mentioned.

[bvark]

Funnily enough although copper can run VDSL2+ at >50M, the UK's access network frequency plan prohibits it.

Ethernet in the first-mile with large-scale line bonding will give you 80M+, but it's hardly consumer-grade technology.

[webvictim]

The words "just wait and see what's happening at the end of the year" were mentioned.
Are you 1) under NDA, 2) lacking more information or 3) just being deliberately aloof with little reason? :P

[kandy]

I'm quite happy with 8Mbit/s..... although I would much rather we had better upload speeds, less contention and no download limits if money was going to be spent somewhere.

If the government spent my tax money on something as stupid as Fibre to the home, I would be furious. If BT or someone wanted to provide it at their cost to my home at a reasonable monthly price, I'm hardly going to complain.

[Elkeeed]

mmm what we need is more bandwidth all the way to the exchange so that we can use what we have already rather than all this throttling and contention.