Paypal becomes free?

[bvark]

After years of fending off attempts to ruthlessly exploit me by just about everyone I spend money with, I've become so wizened and cynical that I'm wondering what the catch with Paypal's user agreement changes is.

Seems like if I tie Paypal to a bank account it will shortly be free for me to send cash to both commercial and personal UK sellers.

What am I missing?

[ez64]

There ability to freeze all your money going in and out of it whenever they please indefinatly.

[kandy]

Sounds like they are using it to combat fraud, so they can now just empty your bank account directly instead of putting you in negative balance on your paypal account if someone pays you with a stolen credit card.

[Lucifa]

I'm not letting Paypal anywhere near my bank account.
I'm correct in thinking they are not regulated by the FSA? So they can kindly FO.

[WhiteKnight]

I'm not letting Paypal anywhere near my bank account.
I'm correct in thinking they are not regulated by the FSA? So they can kindly FO.

This. At least if you just have your CC on there, you can get your money back via the bank if necessary.

Any cash that goes in to my paypal I use to buy stuff with instead of taking it out. Its easier.

[kandy]

They are forcing people to enter the details now though to validate their account due to "money laundering regulations". If you don't do it after a while you won't be able to send/receive money.

I did it and promptly cancelled the Direct Debit after it had been verified. Also everyone be aware that the "Direct Debit Guarantee" does actually mean something. I have had people take money out of my account in the past without my authorisation (for unpaid bills I have been disputing etc.) and I have always got it back. The banks try to fob you off with "not our problem speak to the company that took it" but as soon as you mention the words Direct Debit Guarantee they are obliged to refund it in full.

[GeeDee]

But surely it's always been free to send cash to anyone.

It's the recipient (or 'seller') who pays the fees.

[KingDaveRa]

But surely it's always been free to send cash to anyone.

It's the recipient (or 'seller') who pays the fees.

That's what I thought.

[Towneh]

I just use paypal with my credit card ;o

[lyn]

Taken from the e-mail i recieved this morning

Effective from 9 July 2008, PayPal will change its fee structure to make it more attractive for our UK customers to send personal payments. We are pleased to announce that:

PayPal will not charge a recipient (regardless of their account type) of a PayPal payment if that payment was funded by the sender's bank account or PayPal balance and it is designated a Personal Payment

PayPal will apply a fee for payments received for Personal Payments or Commercial Payments if such a payment is funded by a credit or debit card, however for Personal Payments funded by a card, the sender will have the option of paying the fees for that payment

Also, PayPal will no longer require its customers to upgrade from a Personal Account to a Premier or Business Account once it has received a total of £250
Consequently the following amendments to the PayPal User Agreement will be applicable for UK customers:
Clause 8 will be amended (where relevant) to provide that:

Receiving Personal Payments which are also Balance/Bank Funded Payments will be free

Receiving Personal Payments and/or Commercial Payments which are also Card Funded Payments will be charged at these standard rates:

3.4% + Fixed Fee For each domestic payment transaction.
3.9% + Fixed Fee For each cross border payment transaction

Merchant Rates

(based on monthly transaction volume & one-off application)
1.4% - 2.9% + Fixed Fee For each domestic payment transaction
1.9% - 3.9% + Fixed Fee For each cross border payment transaction

The monthly volume tiers applicable to these Merchant rates are further described in the Fees section accessible from every page of the PayPal Website.
The Fixed Fee will be (depending on the payment currency):

£0.20 GBP ¥40.0 JPY 1.35 PLN
€0.35 EUR $0.40 AUD 90.0 HUF
$0.30 USD 0.55 CHF 10.00 CZK
$0.30 CAD 2.80 NOK $0.50 SGD
$4.00 MXN 3.25 SEK $2.35 HKD
1.20 ILS 2.60 DKK $0.45 NZD

UK registered Users who receive payments in Euros from other European User countries will receive a 0.5% reduction in the variable amount of the applicable cross border fee.

The sender of a Personal Payment which is also a Card Funded Payment may choose to pay the Fee applicable to that payment.
Clause 15 will include the following new definitions:

"Commercial Payment" means a payment which is not a Personal Payment (including, without limitation a payment associated with an eBay item and/or other goods or services).

"Personal Payment" means a payment made for the purpose of either your personal, family and/or household affairs.

Clauses 4.1, 4.2, 4.4(c), 4.9 will no longer apply to UK customers.

No action is required on your part and you will be able to continue using PayPal with no changes.

[lyn]

If someone can put that in plan terms i would be very greatful

[bvark]

But surely it's always been free to send cash to anyone. It's the recipient (or 'seller') who pays the fees.

Indeed, but now they don't pay any (so don't pass them on, hopefully).

My cynicism has been restored with the "link to bank account so you are on the hook for bad stuff" explanation :-)

[Afty]

I'm not letting Paypal anywhere near my bank account.
I'm correct in thinking they are not regulated by the FSA? So they can kindly FO.Here's a question for you. How are Paypal getting the money *OUT* of your bank account?

Because if they request funds that you haven't authorised, that's fraudulent... I think everyone might find that Paypal have alot less "teeth" in Europe than in the USA, because in the USA they are bound by far less legislation.

Is it Direct Debit they use to withdraw the money from your bank account? If so you're covered by the Direct Debit guarantee.

[Jamz]

Paypal can't and wont try to withdraw funds from your account unless you authorise it

[Lucifa]

I prefer to edge on the side of caution with Paypal given the many many horror stories.

If you fancy some reading:

http://www.paypalsucks.com/forums/showforum.php?fid=17

[Afty]

I prefer to edge on the side of caution with Paypal given the many many horror stories.
The point is not that Paypal is not a ****bag sometimes, but that YOUR BANK IS LIABLE if they send Paypal a payment that you have not authorised.

So why worry about Paypal, when their bad behaviour is your banks problem... :)

[lyn]

Here's a question for you. How are Paypal getting the money *OUT* of your bank account?

Because if they request funds that you haven't authorised, that's fraudulent... I think everyone might find that Paypal have alot less "teeth" in Europe than in the USA, because in the USA they are bound by far less legislation.

Is it Direct Debit they use to withdraw the money from your bank account? If so you're covered by the Direct Debit guarantee.

i believe that Paypal has now moved to luxembourg so less VAT.

[Afty]

i believe that Paypal has now moved to luxembourg so less VAT.They might be paying less tax, but they're still regulated extremely tightly in Europe, whereas in America they are free to act with pretty much impunity.

If you read most of the "Paypal Sucks" sites, you'll see that almost every single complaint revolves around someone with a USA-based Paypal account.

I've been using Paypal for years and I'm not going to attempt to say "I've had no problems, so no-one ever will" - but they have a great system that works well, and does what very few others companies do... they've been great for me.

[Lucifa]

If you read most of the "Paypal Sucks" sites, you'll see that almost every single complaint revolves around someone with a USA-based Paypal account.


The link I posted above was to the UK section of the website.

edit: quick note if you are reading that forum, it's backwards.
On a given thread, newest posts are at the top and on the first page, so read from the end, and bottom to top :p

[kleaneasy]

But surely it's always been free to send cash to anyone.

It's the recipient (or 'seller') who pays the fees.

True as I learned recently to my annoyance/ dissapointment. I've only recently created a paypal account never bothering before because I dont buy from ebay and the like and saw no benefit only more risk.

Anyway long story short I set one up recently for a charity tournament i was sorting out and call me naive having never used it before but I was surprised to find the entry fees were cut into by paypal so the amount we thought we raised was actually somewhat less. We covered it with a 'donation' from my own pocket but it was still rather annoying because I would have prefered any donation from me go direct to the charity. Best bit was to add insult to injury the charities in question dont take paypal so i've had to move the money to another account to allow the payments and thats cost me as well :( ,I'm glad they're removing the fees but frustrated its come only weeks after I couldve done with it /rant

[bvark]

justgiving.com is a great site for charity fundraising that AFAIK doesn't charge people to donate.
(OMG spambot etc)

[kleaneasy]

Ahh brilliant thanks bvark......... I've bookmarked and will take a good look later when Im finished at work :)

[coltangent]

its quite simply, they dont charge u but they charge the recipetent, so anyone with a brain will say u owe me £20.00 and if u pay by paypal add the extra .....which i think is about 70p on 20 quid

[lyn]

its quite simply, they dont charge u but they charge the recipetent, so anyone with a brain will say u owe me £20.00 and if u pay by paypal add the exra .....which i think is about 70p on 20 quid

This hasn't been allowed on ebay for quite a long time. They had a spell of removing items that had that sort of thing in the text.