PVE vs PVP Arena

[SystemId]

My personal opinion is that PVP Arena generally requires more skill then PVE. This is because PVE raid bosses follow a series of scripted events, unlike PVP Arena opponents who force you to change tactics and adapt to different situations. The vast majority of raiding guilds read guides to help then kill raid bosses and after a short period they become farmable by repeating the same tactics every week. A raiding guild can easily carry several less capable players through high-end raiding instances.

This is true up to a point for PVP Arena players, above a certain rating it becomes apparent who is not pulling their weight. Any mistakes made at high-end rating can have catastrophic consequences on your the teams rating.

Patch 2.4 introduces a vast number of PVP epics in high-end raid instances. It seems apparent to me that Blizzard is focusing more and more on giving players who raid high-end PVE advantages over players who soley play PVP Arena.

This creates an imbalance and means the best combination for a PVP Arena player is to have a balance of PVP Arena epics and PVE epics. Its something I find quite annoying for the large majority of us not raiding high-end content.

[Killy]

As you said PvE skill isn't the same as PvP skill so even though you can give a PvE person PvP gear they still won't be on par with those that are used to PvP, it'll just take longer for them to die. Yes there are exceptions to every rule.

Looking at it from Blizz's point of view they're probably trying to throw in something for the PvE inclined so that if they want to PvP on the odd occasion then they have something to do it with without playing with utter mupptards. Hell I haven't got amazing gear and I'm bored with playing with all the idiots that infest our battlegroup already, I just don't have the gear to try arenas yet.

[Bonkers]

People who race motorbikes are **** at racing motorcars! Did you know!?!!?

[Mouse_On_Mars]

:likeacar:

[eleni]

High end PvE guilds use WWS stats and kick anyone who is under-performing or consistantly causes wipes. Bringing a naked ork to raid is fine on farm content (which is by definition very easy) but when your racing for server firsts then guilds have to be ruthless. TBH pretty much exactly what you said about high end PvP being unable to carry bad players as opposed to low end.

I think its great that they are getting rid of some of the barrier to entry. I enjoyed a little bit of arena pvp but endless AV to get the items I needed to stay alive was just not fun.

High end raiders dont see enough new content to keep them happy so most are playing high end PvP. If they are playing both halves of the game then it doesnt seem unfair that they get a reward. If it really bothers you then you will be able to pay large sums of gold to your friendly PvE guilds and they will give you whatever PvP stuff you want.

[Aardvark]

People who race motorbikes are **** at racing motorcars! Did you know!?!!?

John Surtees would like to disagree.

[SystemId]

As you said PvE skill isn't the same as PvP skill so even though you can give a PvE person PvP gear they still won't be on par with those that are used to PvP, it'll just take longer for them to die. Yes there are exceptions to every rule.

Looking at it from Blizz's point of view they're probably trying to throw in something for the PvE inclined so that if they want to PvP on the odd occasion then they have something to do it with without playing with utter mupptards. Hell I haven't got amazing gear and I'm bored with playing with all the idiots that infest our battlegroup already, I just don't have the gear to try arenas yet.

Yeah I completely agree that giving players PVP equipment doesn't automatically make them better PVP players. But I don't think its fair that Blizzard is trying to make up for this by providing PVE players with better PVP equipment that players can't get by purely doing PVP.

2.4 introduces high-end PVP Arena gear in PVE instances. What this means is PVE players can jump straight into high-end PVP Arena without taking the time to play lower brackets as well as having an unfair advantage in equipment.

I wouldn't mind if they started offering tier 6 for Arena points, but they won't. Infact its the opposite, now you can trade in your tier 6 tokens for Arena set pieces.

[Bonkers]

They are doing this because its about demand
The top guilds will surely be clearing sunwell in around 1-2 months
What they going to do after that? Its the same thing that happened pre TBC - they opened up alot of stuff for everyone so they could ALL enjoy (sorry KEEP THEM PAYING THERE SUBS) for as long as possbile whilst they try and crank out WoTLK - just one of those things tbh

[Pumpkin]

It's not like you haven't had to PVP for weapons for most classes for PVE anyway ? (Enhancement Shaman, Elemental Shaman, Shadow Priest, Feral DPS, Moonkin, Fury Warrior (except Glaives) all have S3 weapons that are better than any PVE item. You also need to PVP to get PVP trinkets to make fights like Archimonde vastly easier. It just swings both ways.

To have the absolute best gear in the game for either purpose you should (and you do) need to do both.

It's not like the ladder means **** all anyway, everyone and his dog is selling points anyway.

[Pengwhine]

I wouldn't mind if they started offering tier 6 for Arena points, but they won't. Infact its the opposite, now you can trade in your tier 6 tokens for Arena set pieces.

You can trade tier 6 in for season 2 arena gear in 2.4 (or in the case of the new belts / boots / bracers tokens the s3 accessory items, but those will be in demand for use for the actual t6 pieces for quite some time) which is already out of date and when season 4 comes out shortly afterwards it (season 2) will be purchasable for honour anyway so I don't see what the issue is. Also you're referencing items like i presume http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/february/sindoreipendantofconquest.jpg http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/february/sindoreipendantofsalvation.jpg and http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/february/sindoreipendantoftriumph.jpg which drop off the fourth boss in sunwell yet are basically wasted space on the loot table and essentially side grades from the existing honour neck pieces.

Also if any people do jump into season 2 using raid drops and start doing well in arenas good for them, its not really like having decent (yet out of date) gear automatically makes them good at pvp and in any case you should welcome the chance for more opponents in arenas (well, assuming they fix the queues at least :p)

[[IOA]Madcat]

Arena is about practice and knowledge.

when you run in and you see your oponants and you kno who to kill first who to cc etc its easy.

The more you practice with one team the better you will do.

Exactly the same as PVE but maybe a steeper learning curve

[SystemId]

Madcat;720598']Arena is about practice and knowledge.

when you run in and you see your oponants and you kno who to kill first who to cc etc its easy.

The more you practice with one team the better you will do.

Exactly the same as PVE but maybe a steeper learning curve

While its true that you prepare different strategies for popular combinations, the truth is that you never know what is going to happen and how players are going to react. PVP Arena is not like clearing the trash you've killed 20 times already that evening and then stopping to reread a guide on wowbossguides.com :P

[Shagaire]

Why do you even care about PvE people getting PvP gear if we suck so much?

I can go afk in AV or go play 10 pointless arena games and lose every one for LESS bother than converting a T5/6 token into a part thats a season behind.

Utter ******** thread I'm sorry.

[Shagaire]

Damn it's been a long time since i posted here, need to change my siggy i think it's still back in TFC land :S

[Damz]

Even worse its not even (what would have been) an uptodate TFC siggy :P. Hi Shag btw long time no see :)

As Bonkers mentioned Blizzard are currently opening up the game to keep the majority of the player base subscribing. Removing certain attunements bringing in some top quality items which are obtainable by all. With 2.4 on the horizon and then maybe a few months before the expansion it all becomes dead content anyway as people start the race to 80 and raiding again.

[Bootz]

wtf gaire on mpuk! does that mean you've been to an i-series? you must come again!!!

[bright_]

What they're trying to do is to allow everyone to do everything System, so that PvErs can also PvP with okayish gear without devoting their time to it majorly. Its the same with casuals and raiding hence removing the attunements for every single raid instance(which is retarded, and yes even karazhan they have now removed)

Much as the removal of attunements will help my guild, Its stupid too because half of them won't bother going to see what has been said to be one of the best fights towards endgame, which is Kael'thas. We're currently tryign to down him, but i can see as 2.4 gets closer people are going to start thinking whats the point which is annoying =\

[Mouse_On_Mars]

as 2.4 gets closer people are going to start thinking whats the point which is annoying =\
This happened in the 2-3 months before TBC, for our guild. We missed a load of Naxx bosses, that were within our capabilities, because people weren't bothered and subsequently stopped signing up for raids.

[Shagaire]

wtf gaire on mpuk! does that mean you've been to an i-series? you must come again!!!


I went to all of them from i6 to i20odd i think :)

[SystemId]

Why do you even care about PvE people getting PvP gear if we suck so much?

I can go afk in AV or go play 10 pointless arena games and lose every one for LESS bother than converting a T5/6 token into a part thats a season behind.

Utter ******** thread I'm sorry.

I get the impression you skimmed through the thread and your missing the whole point. I also don't remember saying PVE players suck at PVP.

Welcome back

[SystemId]

What they're trying to do is to allow everyone to do everything System, so that PvErs can also PvP with okayish gear without devoting their time to it majorly. Its the same with casuals and raiding hence removing the attunements for every single raid instance(which is retarded, and yes even karazhan they have now removed)

Much as the removal of attunements will help my guild, Its stupid too because half of them won't bother going to see what has been said to be one of the best fights towards endgame, which is Kael'thas. We're currently tryign to down him, but i can see as 2.4 gets closer people are going to start thinking what's the point which is annoying =\

I see you point. Pre-TBC just before the launch they implemented a series of nerfs to raid and PVP content. Which I guess was an effort to keep people interested and equip players for the expansion. Perhaps they're doing a similar thing again, although if they are then they've started early because Wrath isn't due till Oct/Nov?

Blizzard seem really keen to turn arena into a competitive e-sport, which I think its great. They're launching event servers with premade players and leveling the field by giving everyone access to all the equipment and gems.