Plane Crashlands at LHR!

[Shazz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7194086.stm

Discuss

WP to the pilot though.

[Anim]

Ah so they found the cause of it, fair play to the pilot, times like that is why they get paid lots :)

[Bob Grey]

someone forgot to fill her up

[KingDaveRa]

It's quite amazing how something like three people had 'minor injuries'.

Be interesting to hear the outcome of WHY it happened. Pretty worrying!

[D3TH]

I LIVE right there and my mum said she was looking at it as it was really weird for a plane to take a steep dive, she said and i quote "it was like it fell out of the sky" i read the report and rolles Royce is looking into it, people who make the engines so guessing it a engine problem

[Nikumba]

I would say Boeing will be looking into it, as I belive this is the first 777 to crash. While Rolls Royce will be looking at the engines, for the aircraft to lose all electrical power this is somthing else, other than an engine failure, since most of the essential systems have on board batter backups.

Kimbie

[Chicane]

how many people have now tried this on ms flight sim? ;)

[Neon]

Probably got his beard tangled in the controls.

[her0n]

Clearly someone bluetooth HAXXING :P

[Vikx]

I would say Boeing will be looking into it, as I belive this is the first 777 to crash. While Rolls Royce will be looking at the engines, for the aircraft to lose all electrical power this is somthing else, other than an engine failure, since most of the essential systems have on board batter backups.

Kimbie

its the first one to crash since 1995 i believe.

[Silk75]

Congrats to the pilots anyway, at the end of a long flight from Beijing, they did extremely well with what sounds like a sudden and complete systems failure.

[alipuk]

I wouldnt call it a crash more a very bumpy landing with sever airframe distortion, as I said to Jester any landing you walk away from is a good landing ;)

The triple seven is a good airframe with a superior safety record and hasnt had a major crash or suffered an airframe loss from crashing since 1995. The Air Accident Investigation Beureau (AAIB) will probably concentrate there investigation into what happened in the approach and contributing factors that would cause the loss of power from the engines.

From the interviews I have seen on the TV I would surmise that it was a power loss from the engines (not electrical, as the lights in the cabin did not go out before touchdown). The causes of this could be large and varied but a double bird strike could cause this sort of incident. Witnesses have said the aircraft was louder than normal and didnt sound "right".

All in all they where all very lucky, as one witness said the captain deserved a medal the size of a frying pan. if the aircraft had hit the runway and the gear had collapsed then I suspect there would have been a large fire and a large loss of life.

This is IMHO and I am not a profesional accident investigator. We will have to wait for the official report to get any real answers.

I am currently sat here waiting for a call to go in and recover the airframe so we will wait and see.

[her0n]

What is it you do for a living? Recover wrecked planes?!

[Shazz]

What is it you do for a living? Recover wrecked planes?!

Who doesnt there days...

[Mingtea]

He is a BA elit0r.

[pos]

Well thats great :/ my mum and dad fly out from Heathrow on Monday!! I'd like them in one piece...

[Mouse_On_Mars]

Oh noes!!1 All zee planes, they will crash and burnnnnnn.





:rolleyes:

[alipuk]

hopefully we will be able to remove the Aircraft in the next 24 to 48 hours, as soon as the AAIB let us have the aircraft back

[catbeef]

well a plane lands every minute at heathrow or something stupid, so i really wouldn't bother worrying.

[Jez_Gafys]

since most of the essential systems have on board batter backups.



Afaik, many planes don't actually have battery backup systems. What they have is like a small turbine that can drop from the bottom of the plain to produce power. The power is sufficient to run the most basic of cockpit instruments, and hydraulics to manage rudder control, etc and only the most essential of readouts. Things like cabin lights do not run nor do I think landing gears do they have to be deployed manually.
As the landing gearing was already deployed this means they were already in the approach to the runway before loosing and cabin power, so it would have been a much harder to control landing then if they had lost engines at an high altitude I think about 30,000 feet you normally can glide in nice and smooth (well relatively) but as they were in the decent it would have made it very hard to control speed and once down its lucky it went down on the grass as they didn't have engine to reverse it could have gone straight down the runway at an excessive speed before maybe an even bigger catostrophy?

[porsche]

As we all know that laptops have a major effect on planes when they're in the air, why didn't someone fire up Excel and pull the plane up out of the dive?

-Porsche-

[alipuk]

Afaik, many planes don't actually have battery backup systems.Sorry this is completely wrong. all aircraft have batteries and on comercial airliners they are specifically designed to power the aircraft essential system in the event of a total loss of power. This includes but not limited to Standby instruments, 1 VHF radio, and starting up the Auxiliary Power Unit (APU).

What they have is like a small turbine that can drop from the bottom of the plain to produce power. The power is sufficient to run the most basic of cockpit instruments, and hydraulics to manage rudder control, etc and only the most essential of readouts. This is true but not all aircraft have these fitted, but the triple seven does have one. again this is incase of total failures of systems but it still needs time to drop and activate. Typically that takes approximatley 30 seconds. great at 38000 feet but not much use a 1000 feet on approach.

Things like cabin lights do not run nor do I think landing gears do they have to be deployed manually. As part of the electrical emergency process cabin lighting is lost (called shedding) but landing gear uses gravity to deploy, even in normal operation.

As the landing gearing was already deployed this means they were already in the approach to the runway before loosing and cabin power, so it would have been a much harder to control landing then if they had lost engines at an high altitude I think about 30,000 feet you normally can glide in nice and smooth (well relatively) but as they were in the decent it would have made it very hard to control speed and once down its lucky it went down on the grass as they didn't have engine to reverse it could have gone straight down the runway at an excessive speed before maybe an even bigger catostrophy?This is true to some extent. There was an incident where a BA jumbo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9) flew through a volcanic cloud that caused all 4 engines to shutdown. The aircraft glided for some 25 minutes and fell 20000 feet before they managed to restart the engines on that aircraft. AFAIK this is the first time an aircraft has lost engine power this late in the decent, some 1500 feet over Hounslow. Even the Air Canada 767 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider) that ran out of fuel back in 1983 was at a substantial height and they managed to "dead stick" the aircraft into an abandoned airfield. both these incidents happened at altitude, thus they had the luxury of time to think about what to do.

As we all know that laptops have a major effect on planes when they're in the air, why didn't someone fire up Excel and pull the plane up out of the dive?

-Porsche-WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. its alleged that mobile phones COULD have an effect on aircraft, but all current research points to the fact this risk is minimal.

Remember kids flying is still the safest form of transport, and is not as bad for the environment as say shipping!

[Jamz]

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. its alleged that mobile phones COULD have an effect on aircraft, but all current research points to the fact this risk is minimal.


I think he was joking!

[Shazz]

Out of interest, what do you actually do for a living ali? :p

Either you work for BA (or similar), of have far to much time on your hands... :D

[alipuk]

I think he was joking!
hey I was in the zone :)

Out of interested, what do you actually do for a living ali? :p I am an aircraft engineer for a certain airline ;)

[Shazz]

ah, that explains it then ;)

[Jez_Gafys]

This is true to some extent. There was an incident where a BA jumbo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9) flew through a volcanic cloud that caused all 4 engines to shutdown. The aircraft glided for some 25 minutes and fell 20000 feet before they managed to restart the engines on that aircraft.

I think this one was actually covered on Air Crash Investigation once?

As part of the electrical emergency process cabin lighting is lost (called shedding) but landing gear uses gravity to deploy, even in normal operation.

I Understand that the landing gear itself just uses gravity but the actual landing gear shutter/door would need power first to open and deploy? You hear the sound of these opened when you are landing, in an emergency loss of power you have to crank these open manually to release the landing gear?

And OMG reading through you post where you quoted me has taught me one thing ... I need to get some punctuation and spelling skills :D

[WhiteKnight]

landing gear uses gravity to deploy, even in normal operation.

Yeh, there was a big problem with the new Airbus on its landing gear. Kept getting stuck as it dropped.

Despite each set of gear weighing as much as several family saloon cars, it was still jamming on the doors. Their solution, Teflon coat the doors. :D

[Jez_Gafys]

Yeh, there was a big problem with the new Airbus on its landing gear. Kept getting stuck as it dropped.

Despite each set of gear weighing as much as several family saloon cars, it was still jamming on the doors. Their solution, Teflon coat the doors. :D

Yeah I remember watching that program about the new super jumbos, even when the doors were coated they still seemed to struggle sometimes.
Still amazes me how tyres can hold the weight of planes like that, the weight of a plane + cargo (either 72 or 80% of this btw is highly hazardous on all commercial flights, I work in the chemical industry and have done air freight exams, there could be a single drum on a plane capable of killing everyone very easily if just a small ammount of the gases could escape. Or sometimes there are IBCs that if they hit certain temperatures the will explode. ofc normally passengers aint aware of the cargo that is carried on a plane) + fuel the weight must be ludicrous all held up by a few rubber balloons :D

[WhiteKnight]

You hear the sound of these opened when you are landing, in an emergency loss of power you have to crank these open manually to release the landing gear?

The sounds you hear are normally the flaps coming down, not the landing gear.

[alipuk]

I Understand that the landing gear itself just uses gravity but the actual landing gear shutter/door would need power first to open and deploy? You hear the sound of these opened when you are landing, in an emergency loss of power you have to crank these open manually to release the landing gear?

And OMG reading through you post where you quoted me has taught me one thing ... I need to get some punctuation and spelling skills :DThe doors rely on hydraulic pressure for opening and closing in normal operation. However they can use gravity in an emergency situation. In the videos I have seen the gear was down and the doors up which indicate that the landing gear deployment was normal.

[Jez_Gafys]

That's what I was saying was that they must have lost power very late on in the decent, not sure at what altitude a plane of that size deploys the landing gear?

[Shazz]

Speaking of videos, got any links to any?

i swear i read theres some on the net somewhere...

[Mouse_On_Mars]

Speaking of videos, got any links to any?

i swear i read theres some on the net somewhere...
Here's a very short one of the approach:
CYwQ4EHQY8Y

[alipuk]

The Preliminary report into the accident has been released. Basically says there was a failure between the throttles and the engine