ISP Problems

[bright_]

Right, lots of people have a lot of complaints about Virgin media nowadays, due to their shoddy customer service, and the actual broaband itself going downhill since NTL were taken over.

Up until the last year, we had no drop outs from our cable broadband for 5 years, since virgin took over we've not really had a month without at least a complete loss of internet for at least a day. The last 3 months its ending up with about 1 problem a week where either we lose speed severely (to the point where i get a ping on a london vent server of 3k) or a complete loss of internet.

So i'm in the position of switching to another ISP, which means reconnecting our BT line, getting it fixed (hedgeclippers ftl) and making it broadband active.

With us having been on cable for ages, I really have no idea about ADSL broadband. Will I need to buy a new router, do I need to buy my own modem, is a normal ADSL connection really all that stable?

The things I'm after from the connection are: Ability to download the odd large file.
Stable, buy fairly swift connection
Lots less downtime than Virgin.

I've been looking at Multiplay DSL, as I know people on here and can talk to people in the uk if my connection goes tits up.

In terms of switching from cable to DSL, do I need a MAC code that I've heard so much about, considering our Phone line has never had ADSL on at all?

so yes, any help would be wonderful, as i know a bit, but not enough to make a straight choice :)

-bright

[Lusc]

My advise is stay on Cable and keep complaining to them.

I moved out of my parents house 9 months ago and into my own place. When I was at my parents house I had been on Ntl/virgin cable for about 5 years and even with the hiccups that virgin have had, it is so much better then this ADSL pile of ****.

I am moving back home this weekend and I cant wait to get back to my cable modem. The rare occasions I did complain, I got free service for months.

Multiplay was a good service when I played on a friends connection. I think zildram? (correct me on the name) are also good. Both of these a quite pricey, but ADSL is definatly turning into a pay for quality market now. But just dont go with BT, there traffic throttling is rediculous and even with there new '21CN' stuff coming out, I still think its going to be ****e.

Also if you dont have a use for a Land line like I do then you have to pay £15 quid or so ontop of your internet connection.

Joe

[[IOA]Madcat]

i think only the people who download from torrents and usenet seem to have major issue with DSL services purely because as above they limit these activites how many people use torrents and usenet (apart from blizzard downloader) for legal resources.

not many.

I have a DSL connection with BT. I see sweet download speed from multiplay FTP and fileplanet and have not experienced any throttling. I have never had any downtime and always see superb pings when playing warcraft, COD4 and C&C3.

I never download illegal content as i refuse to watch films that aren't of the quality they were intended to be and as a avid games player i believe the people who put the effort into making the games we play deserve to be paid for doing so.

I would be very interested in seeing who has issues with what part of there service. reading some of the complaints about multiplay DSL it seems to be that people are moaning there torrents are slow on a gaming service

[K]

If your a looking for DSL suited for gaming you wont beat our DSL no question.

With regards stability the choice of modem and the physical state of your line can be a factor but in the vast majority of cases you wont see a drop unless there is maintenance which is rare.

If your switching from cable you wont need a MAC code that's only required when switching between providers but will mean you have to pay the BT activation fee.

Hope this helps any more questions feel free to drop us a tick on our support site:
http://support.multiplay.co.uk.

[Inferno]

Right i feel i have to post on here

But just dont go with BT, there traffic throttling is rediculous and even with there new '21CN' stuff coming out, I still think its going to be ****e.

21CN is not BT as a service but there infrastructure of there network and how it communicates with each other, adding faster pipes to all of the exchanges and creating a huge MPLS network for overall better service for all customers using a BT provided service(notice this may not be with BT but with a BT wholesale customer like AOL, Bulldog, SKY, Plusnet, Pipex, and BT themselves, Orange, Virgin media *also does normal adsl* and not forgetting MPUK dsl)

Also if you dont have a use for a Land line like I do then you have to pay £15 quid or so ontop of your internet connection.

This is a true argument but its always good to have a backup line :)


With regards stability the choice of modem and the physical state of your line can be a factor but in the vast majority of cases you wont see a drop unless there is maintenance which is rare.

ADSL Max works on a system where it will stabilize for the best speed of you line so if you are very far away from the exchange chances are you will only be able to get 2meg ADSL most, where as if you are near to the local exchange and your line has a good noise margin and has good quality copper then your more likely to get between 6 and 8 meg, All of this is determined in the first 10 days of the ADSL connection called a "stabilization period" during this period you may see a lot of disconnects as the line tries to go to a high speed if it cant sustain that speed it will drop the speed down and try staying up at that speed this can go on for 10 days and once completed it should stabilize at your lines best speed.

If you get drops on the line after that or after some months of service this would b clarified as a fault now depending on the results for your ISP's test this might end up being a equipment fault on your site or a possible line issue of which it will need to be passed to BT.

As for which service to go for it depends on what they offer in the way of download caps and traffic shaping of which all of the above mentioned do use, MPUK shape to make gaming traffic prioritized but this can be a not so good on p2p and downloads.

the only few ISP's i know that break the general rule are LLU suppliers these are people who use there own equipment in BT exchanges and offer a more personal service people like BE Internet who have no cap limit and no shaping, also from what i hear have excellent support and offer upto 24meg rather than the standard 8.

I hope this helps a little bit :)

[GeeDee]

And I feel I must address a few of your mis-points. :)

21CN is not BT as a service but there infrastructure of there network and how it communicates with each other, adding faster pipes to all of the exchanges and creating a huge MPLS network for overall better service for all customers using a BT provided service

Yes, 21CN is all about standardizing the network. It'll all be IP based and will make for a far better network overall, both from BTs POV and it's end users.

HOWEVER, part of 21CN deployment involves replacing phone switches and DLAMs with MSANs, which will deliver voice services and (wait for it) ADSL2+ from the same piece of kit. (It's the ADSL 2+ bit that's going to have the effect on your broadband). This means (at least slightly) better performance for most people as well as speeds of up to 24m/bit to customers with shorter lines. It also gives BTw the ability to remove IP Profiling as well I believe.

(notice this may not be with BT but with a BT wholesale customer like AOL, Bulldog, SKY, Plusnet, Pipex, and BT themselves, Orange, Virgin media *also does normal adsl* and not forgetting MPUK dsl)

Actually Bulldog, Sky, a large proportion of Oranges customer base, some Plusnet users, some Pipex users and most AOL customers are all delievered via LLU services which 21CN will have absolutely no effect on whatsoever, anywhere.

ADSL Max works on a system where it will stabilize for the best speed of you line so if you are very far away from the exchange chances are you will only be able to get 2meg ADSL most, where as if you are near to the local exchange and your line has a good noise margin and has good quality copper then your more likely to get between 6 and 8 meg, All of this is determined in the first 10 days of the ADSL connection called a "stabilization period" during this period you may see a lot of disconnects as the line tries to go to a high speed if it cant sustain that speed it will drop the speed down and try staying up at that speed this can go on for 10 days and once completed it should stabilize at your lines best speed.

Actually the 10 day training period serves no technical purpose other than to set an MSR value for the line. The speed you will get depends entirely on the attenuation of your line coupled with the target SNR for your line - *always*.

If you get drops on the line after that or after some months of service this would b clarified as a fault now depending on the results for your ISP's test this might end up being a equipment fault on your site or a possible line issue of which it will need to be passed to BT.

Nope - wouldn't be a fault at all. It just means that the SNR has fallen too low to maintain a connection, at which point a re-train will be required. The results of this re-train will set the sync speed at the *current* attenuation, with a margin of the *set* SNR. BTw will only accept a fault if the sync is below the MSR (this is what the 10 day bit is about). Even then, all they are likely to do is increase the target SNR, which results in a lower sync rate but a higher margin for error (which will cure a line with a very variable attenuation that regularly loses sync. In reality, BRAS will actually increase the target SNR almost every time anyway, negating the need for it to be done manually by BTw). The cause of the loss of sync is irrelevant, but it's usually something the end user can fix themselves (cheap extension wiring, ring wire adding interference, no / bad filters) and those aren't BT problems! :)

[Inferno]

Nope - wouldn't be a fault at all. It just means that the SNR has fallen too low to maintain a connection, at which point a re-train will be required. The results of this re-train will set the sync speed at the *current* attenuation, with a margin of the *set* SNR. BTw will only accept a fault if the sync is below the MSR (this is what the 10 day bit is about). Even then, all they are likely to do is increase the target SNR, which results in a lower sync rate but a higher margin for error (which will cure a line with a very variable attenuation that regularly loses sync. In reality, BRAS will actually increase the target SNR almost every time anyway, negating the need for it to be done manually by BTw). The cause of the loss of sync is irrelevant, but it's usually something the end user can fix themselves (cheap extension wiring, ring wire adding interference, no / bad filters) and those aren't BT problems! :)

that would be classified as a fault :p

and i was putting it in layman's terms :p

[GeeDee]

No a fault is when there is a problem you need the supplier to fix. That's almost never the case for an unstable connection. :)

[Inferno]

Um im sorry what........

So your telling me all the faults that BT go out and fix due to intermittent connection usually caused on the line card and needing a reset are all false. not to mention checking the junction boxes which also can be a very likely cause.....

Yes the equipment can be in some situations the problem, but if you do all your tests correctly and know what your looking for you can pretty much rule out the equipment, the same with complete loss issues, generally its an equipment fault if you see errors one way on the line at which point try new equipment, if that is still dropping pass to BT as a fault

[Murray-Mint]

No a fault is when there is a problem you need the supplier to fix. That's almost never the case for an unstable connection. :)

No, really, it is. In my experience, the majority of the faults are either 'fixed' by resetting the line card (Not a fix as such, doesn't sort out the underlieing issue), moving to a new copper pair or as a last resort, a 'lift and shift' (Try convincing BT to do that one).

As mentioned by Inferno, if you're doing the troubleshooting process properly, the ISP support can rule out everything but the BT line. You can then confirm this by running a WOOSH test and analysing the results properly.

Back on topic on ISPs though. I've used the ISP that GeeDee works for, and the ISP that Inferno works for. I know which one I prefer...

[IanCumbers]

but ADSL is definatly turning into a pay for quality market now.

And... that's a really, really, really, really good thing.

A friend of mine sends 1 or 2 emails a month and once a month, pops onto the Argos website to buy something. If the service is slow, or offline, that's ok, she just tries the next day.

When I work from home, my Internet connection is as essential as oxygen - so I need my connection to be reliable. My free time is spent gaming, where I want < 25ms latency to my favourite game servers.

My friend opted for Sky - it's either free or as near as makes no difference. The essentially poor service (technical and from a customer service viewpoint) is pretty much what you would expect from any 'free' or cheap ISP.

As for me - I am now more than happy to pay whatever I pay for Multiplay, including taking into account the BT line I have to have but don't use for voice calls.

The saying; You get what you pay for, does apply to internet connections and that means that we have a choice.

This isn't aimed at anyone on this thread - it's just a general comment >> It winds me up when I hear people moan about something that is free or almost free, and they then realise that they aren't getting top quality service.

Ian

[Murray-Mint]

The saying; You get what you pay for, does apply to internet connections and that means that we have a choice.

This isn't aimed at anyone on this thread - it's just a general comment >> It winds me up when I hear people moan about something that is free or almost free, and they then realise that they aren't getting top quality service.

Ian

So, so true. I end up paying £47 a month for the ADSL connection I need. With that I get no FUP, good speeds, good UK support. With unbundled ISPs you get what you pay for. I don't do as much gaming as I'd like, so a gaming connection isn't important to me, data transfer and the knowledge of good efficient support is :)