Aardvark
9th November 2007, 09:26
Updated version of the guide in the sticky, originally posted here (http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=10223) by d'hofren.
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The" if you did it all again thread reminded me of this". On reflection most of it still seems pretty accurate. So resurrecting as looking back at the original thread it seems some folks found it useful.
As last time, chip in with comments and I will edit them in, (credited of course), to the OP. What I want to create is a decent beginners guide. Between us all we should be able to create something rather good.
As Scots Crusader stated, This looks daunting, DONT PANIC. It is purely intended as a tasting menu to allow a new player to get an idea of what skills are useful to his chosen race. Read it and decide which things fit the way you want to play and the ships you want to start specialising in. My alt char got her first solo pvp cruiser kill at half a million skill points total.
The only vitals are the things in Italics these skills will allow you to use most of the fittings listed on this site
I have also included the skills rank where I could. The lower the rank the faster the skill is to train. Eve skills training works on diminishing returns. Training from lvl 4 to 5 takes far longer than training from lvl 1 to 2. A skill at lvl 4 will give you 4/5ths of the benefits that training that skill to lvl 5 will give. You may find it best to train a few skills to lvl 4 before you start working on finishing any one of them up to lvl 5.
I have included Drone and Missile sections but remember these are secondary weapons systems for most minmatar ships. These secondary offensive sets are what makes the minmatar ships so rewarding to fly. However, It does take more training to max out both your primary and secondary weapons trees but many ships, (rifter, rupture, stabber, cyclone to name a few), can be very dangerous with just good gunnery skills and only little in the secondary trees. The secondary trees will eventually be what gives you the real boost over other pilots, Got good missile skills and can fly minmatar interceptors? Training caldari frigatre to lvl 5 will make you perfectly skilled to fly the cladari Crow interceptor. Got good armour tanking and drone skills? A nos fitted Gallenete Dominix is only a few weeks training away.
I have more or less ignored tanking skills. Maybe someone else could write something on those?
Anyhow, enjoy and add feedback.
Electronics
There are a few skills that you need trained to lvl 5 asap. Anything less will seriously compromise your ability to get the best from any ship.
Electronic Warfare / Rank 2 / - Needed to run electronic warfare mods, pvp only stuff but one of the best ways you can add value to a pvp gang as a low skilled pilot.
Electronics / Rank 1 / - Adds to your ships CPU, you need this at lvl 5 to fit mot of the setups posted here.
Propulsion Jamming / Rank 3 / - This one lets you use stasis webbers and warp scramblers, vital for pvp and of course webbers are also vital for holding down npc’s so you can hit them.
Signature Analysis / Rank 1 / - Faster lock times, enough said. I remember I had an infuriating time as a new player before I found this skill. I was working as a vigil flying tackler and every time I started to lock a hostile they would just warp off. Training this to lvl 5 solved this.
Targeting / Rank 1 / - Lock more targets
Engineering
Again just the vital stuff listed here.
Energy Emission Systems / Rank 2 / - Allows the use of Nos
Energy Grid Upgrades / Rank 2 / - Vital for fitting items that boost your grid.
Energy Management / Rank 3 / - 5% extra to Cap per lvl, a must have at lvl 5.
Energy Systems Operation / Rank 1 / - 5% to cap recharge, another vital skill to lvl 4 asap
Engineering / Rank 1 / - 5% to grid per lvl, again a must have at lvl5 for most posted setups
Learning
Many people suggest training all the learning skills first, I disagree with this. Eve is no fun if you are just grinding skills at first. I suggest:
By the time you are in a cruiser you should have cross trained all your learning skills to Lvl4. Then train up those cruiser weapons and support skills until you are happy in your chosen boat. Then, and only then, settle down to train everything to lvl 5 and then onto lvl 4 in the advanced learning skills.
Gunnery
This is bread and butter for Minmatar
Advanced Weapon Upgrades (lvl 4 will do for now)
Gunnery (lvl 5 asap)
Motion Prediction (lvl 4 asap, lvl 5 as soon as, this one is vital for all arty setups)
Rapid Firing (lvl 4 asap, more firing means more dps, but brings reloads in sooner)
Sharpshooter (lvl4 asap)
Surgical Strike (lvl4 asap more damage)
Trajectory Analysis
Weapon Upgrades (lvl5 asap)
Navigation
Afterburner / Rank 1 / - MWD and after burners
High Speed Maneuvering / Rank 5 / - For Micro Warp Drives
Navigation / Rank 1 / - MWD pre req.
Quick note here from a knowledgeable minmatar, in the original guide I skipped over the nav skills and Mordo pointed this out.
IMO you've glossed over the single most important part for minnies, navigation. Personally I'd recommend getting pretty much your entire nav tree to 4 at least, reasoning being that we live by our speed and agility and that given our generally horrible cap we need as much cap as we can get.
Spaceship Command
A final note here; projectiles are underpowered BY DESIGN. Many Matar ships get a damage, tracking, fall off or Rate of fire bonus linked to the relevant ship skill. This, (in theory), brings the sub par projectile up to a performance level on a par with other races weapons. This means you may find that you need to train your minmatar frigate skill up to lvl 4 to get the best from your Rifter.
This stops Joe Amarr from fitting a full set of 8 1400 arty onto his apoc and ending up with a ship that both out damages and out tanks our tempests..
Below are a couple of examples:
Rifter -
“Special Ability: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to tracking per level.”
Rupture –
“Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed per level and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level.”
The secondary offensive trees:
Drones
Drones really only come into their own in cruisers and above. You can probably ignore them until then. However you will need decent drone skills once you start looking into Battleships. The Typhoon has the second largest drone bay in game and the Tempests Drone bay is fairly sizeable. Even the humble rupture can fit a nice rack of light drones which will chew through most frigates, (or two mediums and a light).
Drones have tracking that relates to their size, light drones can track mast frigates easily, Heavy drones have low tracking and really only handle battleship sized targets.
The core skills here are:
Combat Drone Operation / Rank 2 / - Needed to use medium and light drones
Drone Interfacing / Rank 5 / - Boosts Drone damage
Drones / Rank 1 / - The base skill needed to use drones, one drone for each lvl trained, up to the maximum you can fit in your drone bay
Heavy Drone Operation / Rank 5 / - Needed to use Heavy Drones
Scout Drone Operation / Rank 1 / - Adds to the maximum range your drones can operate at.
It should be easy enough to tell what order you want to train these skills in: Train to control the max drones you can fit, train to control the correct size for your chose n mix and make sure you make some effort on the range and damage skills.
Missiles
I am not going to dwell on these. I will just list the basic support skills and the skills required to use light missiles, rockets and heavies. As with drones these are a secondary weapon for the minmatar and as such you want to train gunnery first and just throw enough training here to squeeze some use from any missile slots you have spare.
FoF Missiles / Rank 3 /
Guided Missile Precision / Rank 5 /
Heavy Missiles / Rank 3 /
Missile Bombardment / Rank 2 /
Missile Launcher Operation / Rank 1 /
Missile Projection / Rank 4 /
Rapid Launch / Rank 2 /
Rockets / Rank 1 /
Standard Missiles / Rank 2 /
Target Navigation Prediction / Rank 2 /
Warhead Upgrades / Rank 5 /
Tanking
Mechanic Skills (Armor Tanking)
From Loki and posted elsewhere in the original thread
Loki wrote:
2 schools of thought really:
Gank: do enough damage and you wont need to tank because they'll be dead.
Tank: absorb lots of damage and you will do more damage in the long run.
T2 shield tanking is much less SP intensive than armor tanking.
With the hp boost in kali I'd say the emphasis has moved away from gank more towards tank. I'd say do armor tanking first since its more cap efficient, and there are lots of good armor tanking ships including the ruppy, hurri, tempest (can do either shield or armor) and phoon.
Skills needed:
Hull Upgrades level V
Armour Compensation skills x4 level IV
Repair Systems level IV
======
The" if you did it all again thread reminded me of this". On reflection most of it still seems pretty accurate. So resurrecting as looking back at the original thread it seems some folks found it useful.
As last time, chip in with comments and I will edit them in, (credited of course), to the OP. What I want to create is a decent beginners guide. Between us all we should be able to create something rather good.
As Scots Crusader stated, This looks daunting, DONT PANIC. It is purely intended as a tasting menu to allow a new player to get an idea of what skills are useful to his chosen race. Read it and decide which things fit the way you want to play and the ships you want to start specialising in. My alt char got her first solo pvp cruiser kill at half a million skill points total.
The only vitals are the things in Italics these skills will allow you to use most of the fittings listed on this site
I have also included the skills rank where I could. The lower the rank the faster the skill is to train. Eve skills training works on diminishing returns. Training from lvl 4 to 5 takes far longer than training from lvl 1 to 2. A skill at lvl 4 will give you 4/5ths of the benefits that training that skill to lvl 5 will give. You may find it best to train a few skills to lvl 4 before you start working on finishing any one of them up to lvl 5.
I have included Drone and Missile sections but remember these are secondary weapons systems for most minmatar ships. These secondary offensive sets are what makes the minmatar ships so rewarding to fly. However, It does take more training to max out both your primary and secondary weapons trees but many ships, (rifter, rupture, stabber, cyclone to name a few), can be very dangerous with just good gunnery skills and only little in the secondary trees. The secondary trees will eventually be what gives you the real boost over other pilots, Got good missile skills and can fly minmatar interceptors? Training caldari frigatre to lvl 5 will make you perfectly skilled to fly the cladari Crow interceptor. Got good armour tanking and drone skills? A nos fitted Gallenete Dominix is only a few weeks training away.
I have more or less ignored tanking skills. Maybe someone else could write something on those?
Anyhow, enjoy and add feedback.
Electronics
There are a few skills that you need trained to lvl 5 asap. Anything less will seriously compromise your ability to get the best from any ship.
Electronic Warfare / Rank 2 / - Needed to run electronic warfare mods, pvp only stuff but one of the best ways you can add value to a pvp gang as a low skilled pilot.
Electronics / Rank 1 / - Adds to your ships CPU, you need this at lvl 5 to fit mot of the setups posted here.
Propulsion Jamming / Rank 3 / - This one lets you use stasis webbers and warp scramblers, vital for pvp and of course webbers are also vital for holding down npc’s so you can hit them.
Signature Analysis / Rank 1 / - Faster lock times, enough said. I remember I had an infuriating time as a new player before I found this skill. I was working as a vigil flying tackler and every time I started to lock a hostile they would just warp off. Training this to lvl 5 solved this.
Targeting / Rank 1 / - Lock more targets
Engineering
Again just the vital stuff listed here.
Energy Emission Systems / Rank 2 / - Allows the use of Nos
Energy Grid Upgrades / Rank 2 / - Vital for fitting items that boost your grid.
Energy Management / Rank 3 / - 5% extra to Cap per lvl, a must have at lvl 5.
Energy Systems Operation / Rank 1 / - 5% to cap recharge, another vital skill to lvl 4 asap
Engineering / Rank 1 / - 5% to grid per lvl, again a must have at lvl5 for most posted setups
Learning
Many people suggest training all the learning skills first, I disagree with this. Eve is no fun if you are just grinding skills at first. I suggest:
By the time you are in a cruiser you should have cross trained all your learning skills to Lvl4. Then train up those cruiser weapons and support skills until you are happy in your chosen boat. Then, and only then, settle down to train everything to lvl 5 and then onto lvl 4 in the advanced learning skills.
Gunnery
This is bread and butter for Minmatar
Advanced Weapon Upgrades (lvl 4 will do for now)
Gunnery (lvl 5 asap)
Motion Prediction (lvl 4 asap, lvl 5 as soon as, this one is vital for all arty setups)
Rapid Firing (lvl 4 asap, more firing means more dps, but brings reloads in sooner)
Sharpshooter (lvl4 asap)
Surgical Strike (lvl4 asap more damage)
Trajectory Analysis
Weapon Upgrades (lvl5 asap)
Navigation
Afterburner / Rank 1 / - MWD and after burners
High Speed Maneuvering / Rank 5 / - For Micro Warp Drives
Navigation / Rank 1 / - MWD pre req.
Quick note here from a knowledgeable minmatar, in the original guide I skipped over the nav skills and Mordo pointed this out.
IMO you've glossed over the single most important part for minnies, navigation. Personally I'd recommend getting pretty much your entire nav tree to 4 at least, reasoning being that we live by our speed and agility and that given our generally horrible cap we need as much cap as we can get.
Spaceship Command
A final note here; projectiles are underpowered BY DESIGN. Many Matar ships get a damage, tracking, fall off or Rate of fire bonus linked to the relevant ship skill. This, (in theory), brings the sub par projectile up to a performance level on a par with other races weapons. This means you may find that you need to train your minmatar frigate skill up to lvl 4 to get the best from your Rifter.
This stops Joe Amarr from fitting a full set of 8 1400 arty onto his apoc and ending up with a ship that both out damages and out tanks our tempests..
Below are a couple of examples:
Rifter -
“Special Ability: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to tracking per level.”
Rupture –
“Special Ability: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed per level and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level.”
The secondary offensive trees:
Drones
Drones really only come into their own in cruisers and above. You can probably ignore them until then. However you will need decent drone skills once you start looking into Battleships. The Typhoon has the second largest drone bay in game and the Tempests Drone bay is fairly sizeable. Even the humble rupture can fit a nice rack of light drones which will chew through most frigates, (or two mediums and a light).
Drones have tracking that relates to their size, light drones can track mast frigates easily, Heavy drones have low tracking and really only handle battleship sized targets.
The core skills here are:
Combat Drone Operation / Rank 2 / - Needed to use medium and light drones
Drone Interfacing / Rank 5 / - Boosts Drone damage
Drones / Rank 1 / - The base skill needed to use drones, one drone for each lvl trained, up to the maximum you can fit in your drone bay
Heavy Drone Operation / Rank 5 / - Needed to use Heavy Drones
Scout Drone Operation / Rank 1 / - Adds to the maximum range your drones can operate at.
It should be easy enough to tell what order you want to train these skills in: Train to control the max drones you can fit, train to control the correct size for your chose n mix and make sure you make some effort on the range and damage skills.
Missiles
I am not going to dwell on these. I will just list the basic support skills and the skills required to use light missiles, rockets and heavies. As with drones these are a secondary weapon for the minmatar and as such you want to train gunnery first and just throw enough training here to squeeze some use from any missile slots you have spare.
FoF Missiles / Rank 3 /
Guided Missile Precision / Rank 5 /
Heavy Missiles / Rank 3 /
Missile Bombardment / Rank 2 /
Missile Launcher Operation / Rank 1 /
Missile Projection / Rank 4 /
Rapid Launch / Rank 2 /
Rockets / Rank 1 /
Standard Missiles / Rank 2 /
Target Navigation Prediction / Rank 2 /
Warhead Upgrades / Rank 5 /
Tanking
Mechanic Skills (Armor Tanking)
From Loki and posted elsewhere in the original thread
Loki wrote:
2 schools of thought really:
Gank: do enough damage and you wont need to tank because they'll be dead.
Tank: absorb lots of damage and you will do more damage in the long run.
T2 shield tanking is much less SP intensive than armor tanking.
With the hp boost in kali I'd say the emphasis has moved away from gank more towards tank. I'd say do armor tanking first since its more cap efficient, and there are lots of good armor tanking ships including the ruppy, hurri, tempest (can do either shield or armor) and phoon.
Skills needed:
Hull Upgrades level V
Armour Compensation skills x4 level IV
Repair Systems level IV