New LAN

[Gibby]

There are talks of a LAN in the Glasgow area. I will be involved in this LAN and it will be in association with UprisingLAN. Watch this space for updated information. :icon15:

*update - It will be held in September 2007 in the city centre.
*web address - http://geekagegaming.co.uk/
*2 seperate networks, 1Gb for gaming 100Mb for anything else.
*powered by custom built power distribution unit (PDU)

[Gibby]

*bump

[Semajal]

Im sure any other EVE players seeing that will think "power diagnostic unit, got that in TII?" or am i just too much of an EVE geek :(

[Dentist]

Why 2 seperate networks, and more importantly, why is the 1gb saved for gaming? Because gaming uses SO MUCH bandwith!

[tucool]

Your website fails to work, how do I know where to go if it doesnt work :(

[SBB]

How does the 2 seperate networks thing work exactly? One cable for leeching and one for gaming? :x

[Gibby]

lol, its a power distribution unit i.e for powering all the PC's etc. Similar to the ones used at i series but on a smaller scale.

The website should work! I think there was a problem with the forum causing the website to crash, but it seems to be resolved now. Sorry for being so brief but I don't control the website we have web developers who work on it.

2 networks was basically my idea. I thought it would be good to seperate network traffic, as we all know that problems can arise from network congestion. Yes you are right the 1Gb network would be used for gaming and the 100Mb used for file sharing etc. So you would have two cables next to your computer and plug in the appropriate.

[Sakey]

Just wondering, why?

There is absoloutly no need for gig for gaming. It would make sense to be the other way about tbh.

Though file sharing is bad :p

[Dentist]

And its also a REALLY retarded idea.

[Murray-Mint]

I will second the idea that two separate networks is just complicating it. The only place you really need gig, would be the uplinks to the switches as they're most likely to get saturated.

Other reasons it's a bad idea: not everyone will have 2 network ports AND (more importantly) most games you will not be able to see other games on the network, as it only broadcasts using one of the interfaces.

Just settle for gig and be proud of being one of the first LAN parties in the country to have gig to the desk.

[Sakey]

They won't be though, theres at least one other LAN in Scotland (Not BreachLAN, we didn't see the point in it) that has gig to desk.

Good luck anyway guys, the more LANs the merrier :D

[Sakey]

They won't be though, theres at least one other LAN in Scotland (Not BreachLAN, we didn't see the point in it) that has gig to desk.

Good luck anyway guys, the more LANs the merrier :D

[EDIT] Opps totally didn't see 'one of' in Murrays post

....... And I did press edit not new reply ...didn't I :S

Can someone please delete the post above, k thx

[Murray-Mint]

They won't be though, theres at least one other LAN in Scotland (Not BreachLAN, we didn't see the point in it) that has gig to desk.

Good luck anyway guys, the more LANs the merrier :D

I said "one of the first" :) Not the first :) However, again, good luck to you with this! My only advice is to drop the two networks thing.

[inferno]

it wont work just leave it a single gig network.

[Gibby]

Hi,

Thanks for the positive and negative comments.

However, from previous experience 2 networks would be a good idea and would not be complicated at all.

As I said there would be 2 cables at each persons location clearly marked, gaming and other or something like that. Only 1 cable would be needed at any given time. Although if a client had 2 network ports they could have both plugged in. There are two DHCP servers 1 for the gigabit network and 1 for the 100Mb network. The 100Mb network would contain the file server, access to the internet and other services. Whereas the gigabit would be purely for gaming. Both networks also have different IP ranges. So basically you plug in whichever cable for what you want to do.

1Gb may be overkill and may not be needed but we want to ensure low pings and a high speed network.

QUOTE: Dentist - "And its also a REALLY retarded idea."
I do not appreciate such comments and future comments will be reported accordingly.

Thanks again for the feedback guys.

[Dentist]

So people are really going to get a patch from someone on the network to play say, BF2, then go round the back of their machines change cables to join the servers?

What if they want to idle on MSN and IRC while gaming, or alt tab out while dead in a long-respawn game and check the forums?

I feel that ignoring the advice given on this thread shows you really haven't thaught this through.

Gaming doesn't need bandwith, its a question of latency. Gigabyte network infastructure won't help this latency by much if anything, and the differences you will notice are so minute already given the overheads in most games it will be indistinguishable from the 100mbit network.

If you really want to give people fast file transfers at the expense of alot of faffing and additional setup requirements in both time and cost to you, then just swap the networks over using 1gbit for file transfers and 100mbit for internet and gaming and i'm sure you'll recieve a better response from your customers.

[Sakey]

I have to be honest, from a punters point of view, changing a cable whenever I need to get a patch or go on MSN is just a pain.

Could you not just limit the bandwidth to the FTP to keep adiquate for the gaming?

[EDIT] Agree with all Dentists points. He put it far better than I did

[EDIT2] Also the fact you have a LAN for "File Sharing" does give the impression of warez sharing, you will need to be careful with that and def put something in your T&Cs about it.

[higgeh]

the fact of the matter is that playtime gaming run a gig network and even when transferring a patch you can still game. y have the hassle of all the cabling.

[Murray-Mint]

Gibby: It's great that you post here, but you're refusing to take advice from people who have substantial experience at this. I've run the network for a LAN party for 100 people and 100mbps with 2gbps uplinks to the desk switches was more than adequate. Gaming performance was great and people were downloading from the FTP at adequate speeds with no detrimental effect on the gaming.

It's madness to run two separate networks. But if you're really set on it, then I guess that's all there is to it.

[inferno]

agree with dentist, on all points......

[Boffykins]

I'd just like to add weight to the comments of Dentist, Murray et al as organisor of FatBoyLAN, another series of LAN parties. Please please take this advice on board.

[Gibby]

again some good points raised.

Internet bandwidth will be limited and due to most people being on the gaming network it makes sense to put the Internet onto another network.

I agree with Dentist and F_Sake that there could be some issues with this layout. For example getting a patch or going online means going to the back of your computer and chaning cables. The way I invisaged it was that you would come to the event and plug into the 100Mb network first, get all your patches updates etc. then change to the gaming network. Some people like to just leech all day therefore this infrastructure gives them this option without affecting the overall network performance.

Warez sharing will not be allowed. This will be mentioned in the website and at the event. The website is still in very early stages.

There will be an intranet website set up with forums which will be updated during the event. This will be on the gaming network and will provide updated information to the gamers.

This setup is simply a test it might work it might not. It's worth a try and from what I can see not many other LAN parties have tried it.

Gibby

I have also been involved in running 100 man LAN's at 100Mb speeds. However there is nothing wrong with testing different setups. All the board comments are taken on board and the setup for future events will no doubt change.

Again thanks for the feedback.

[Boffykins]

You've yet to provide a valid advantage to this system. "Less congestion on the gaming network" is not a valid advantage. What's your network topography?

[Murray-Mint]

There's a reason why no other LAN parties have tried this. Because it's pointless.

It's going to be annoying for users, annoying to setup, annoying to admin and annoying to support.

A 100mbps network is more than enough for everything at a LAN party. It makes NO sense to put the internet onto another network! it is quite possibly one of the most retarded ideas I've heard for a LAN party.

[Sakey]

Gibby,

May I ask, how much of this kit do you currently have and how much of it are you going to have to buy in?

Also

Some people like to just leech all day therefore this infrastructure gives them this option without affecting the overall network performance.

Warez sharing will not be allowed

Those two statements do contradict each other. There can't be that much on the FTP that people will want to leech.

[Dam0cles]

(Edit:ahh, i see F_Sake has covered this)
So if Warezing is banned, then what are people going to be spending all day leeching, theres only so many windows updates and game patches that your not going to already have.

Ergo, the second network would get VERY little use appart from web browsing/irc/msn and as an attendee, i would get annoyed very quickly having to change network cables when not gaming to chat to a mate or whilst browsing the web hearing a call for a game go up and have to physically change my network cable and maybe miss out on the game due to it running out of slots etc due to only having one network cable.

And from a technical day job, double the network, double the problems.
You say that the event will run two DHCP's one for each network. Isnt that gonna have some issues with duplicating/wasting ip addresses when you change from one network to the other.

The probability that someone will have two different IP's due to the different networks and the nic not release the old one when changing and having connectivity problems due to getting duplicate IP's on the network your changing to - although its a 30 second fix to release/renew - would again still anoy me. (someone please correct me if im wrong on that one)

:)

[Sakey]

The probability that someone will have two different IP's due to the different networks and the nic not release the old one when changing and having connectivity problems due to getting duplicate IP's on the network your changing to - although its a 30 second fix to release/renew - would again still anoy me. (someone please correct me if im wrong on that one)

Damn you Dam0cles, I just thought of that one, you beat me to the punch :p

[Gibby]

Ok,

Firstly, I don't see there being any IP issues with the setup we would have. Except the usual specified IP probs etc.

And how do the statements below contradict each other, I take it you have illegal content on your PC F_Sake?

Quote:
Some people like to just leech all day therefore this infrastructure gives them this option without affecting the overall network performance.

Quote:
Warez sharing will not be allowed

There are multitudes of freeware, films and games that can be shared legally.

Anyway I don't want to get into any fights about it. As I said it might not work but its worth a try, you could at least try and be positive about it!!!!

We have all the gear except the Gigabit switches, I believe we are getting 7 netgear ones.

I look forward to the feedback once again. :>:

[Murray-Mint]

*sigh*

Be sure to post here after the LAN and let us know what an complete failure the two network setup was.

[inferno]

Ok,
And how do the statements below contradict each other, I take it you have illegal content on your PC F_Sake?


Sorry bit off topic but why is this even relevant and being asked as a community we are giving feedback on your ideas and you slating someone with a suggestion like that is out of order

[tucool]

OK Im not going cause I trust the above people more than two wires. Who knows what all that wire changing could do to me!? It might drive me mad or something.

I have no technical knowledge (well very minimal) and even I can see how pointless it is, its like towing a second car behind the one you drive to work "just for going to the shops".


There is nothing wrong with the 1 wire 1 desk setup of the vast majority of lans, and I dont think it needs to be changed until it is a benefit not a hinderance.

[Quietus]

The probability that someone will have two different IP's due to the different networks and the nic not release the old one when changing and having connectivity problems due to getting duplicate IP's on the network your changing to - although its a 30 second fix to release/renew - would again still anoy me. (someone please correct me if im wrong on that one)
:)

I would expect the two networks to be set up on completely separate subnets, therefore anyone not immediately getting a new ip on connecting the cable (which as long as their PCs network settings are not buggered it should) will not cause conflicts with the new network.

TBH, do what you want, have fun and let us know if it does turn out to be a roaring success as it could be interesting.

[Gibby]

Cheerz guys.

Probably won't work but at least I will have tried it!

[#Wonderdog]

UPDATE:- Event sppears to have folded harder than the French army.

[Shazz]

they built there white flag factory then? :o

[#Wonderdog]

Something like that ;) I think that a horrific website, misguided technical concept, stuborn refusal to listen to reason paired with the total lack of signups and the scathing sinisisim of the lan community for an entirely unequipped and unproven event all combined to knock it on the head.

[kandy]

2 networks, that is indeed a retarded idea.

[inferno]

how did they get an mpuk forum???

[#Wonderdog]

They didnt - Gibby was involved with the UprisingLAN guys way back when - and the MPUK UprisingLAN sub forum was never closed after the event folded years ago. This new event was dubbed Geekagegaming afaik (www.geekagegaming.co.uk).

[Rich]

At the next GL we will have a 3rd network connection just for myspace whores. And an optional 56k modem line to your desk encase you want to dial in remotly to the LAN

[Gibby]

Upr didn't fold. We had to stop it for personal reasons. A Lan called HorizontalDog were using the location for a while after we closed.

GeekageGaming is not involved with Upr and was not my idea. More effort could have been put into GeekageGaming if admins didnt have uni etc. I was basically going to help out the organiser with setting up the event.

The event might still be held in September, if so I will still help out. Lan's are all about enjoying yourself and thats what we want to do.

Gibby

[Shazz]

i still dont think the 2 network thing will work, it will just lose you customers ;)

[#Wonderdog]

Yeh... folded as in the common usage of folded - as in "not running anymore with no chance of resurrection in its previous venue by its previous organisers"...

Everyone loves a good lan - but no-one wants to pay for someone else experiment.

[Gibby]

yeh the 2 network thing would be a bit ott. Think I just had a moment of madness thinking it would be a good idea. lol.

[affro]

Wow, thread necro but I couldnt help noticing that the last post is a total contradiction of everything in the posts over the last two pages, he even wrote;

" I will be involved in this LAN and it will be in association with UprisingLAN."

In his first post, I've sat at my desk lol'ing :D