MultiplayDSL Announce Cessation of IP MAX Services [Archive]

Wizzo

21st July 2006, 12:29

Copy of an email just sent to all ADSL customers:

Dear Multiplay DSL Customer,

This is a notice of a change to customers on IP MAX services. We are also sending this email to customers on standard ADSL so they are aware of this change, although it will not affect them.

We are ceasing to support IP MAX services on MultiplayDSL in 30 days time. We have already removed the ability to order IP MAX from our website, but will also be regrading existing customers on IP MAX to original ADSL in 1 month time, i.e. from 21st August 2006. We will of course change your billing accordingly.

There are two major reasons we are doing this:

1. IP MAX problems represent the vast majority of our support issues, such as unstable lines, poor throughput, high latency, etc. After a number of months now we have come to the conclusion that whilst a few users have absolutely no problems with their MAX lines, this is the exception rather than the rule. As such we no longer feel we can offer IP MAX as a quality service that is suitable for the needs of gamers or business.

2. In spite of the introduction of caps, the bandwidth "spikes" caused by the high-bandwidth service of IP MAX is causing us to pay vastly disproportionate bandwidth costs. This makes IP MAX totally unsustainable at our current size.

We believe that in order to offer the quality service we intend, we simply have to drop IP MAX. Original ASDL services have a far better track record on stability and latency, albeit only capable of up to 2 Mbps maximum speed.

The Way Forward

By default, existing IP MAX customers will be regraded to GamerDSL regardless of whether you are on IP MAX standard or premium. This will take place from 21st August 2006. However, we are able to offer customers a number of other options.

If your IP MAX line has been stable and you are happy with it, we will let you keep it and simply restrict your data throughput to 2 Mbps. This allows you to keep the increased upstream bandwidth of IP MAX.
Customers can choose to go to OfficeDSL. This offers 20:1 instead of the 50:1 contention of GamerDSL, and also has 50 GB peak download cap as opposed to 40 GB. It is still original ADSL, so is limited to a maximum of 2 Mbps downstream.
For customers who want to keep full rate IP MAX services and wish to move elsewhere to get them, please advise us asap and we will provide you a MAC code. Note that similar to us having given you 30 days notice here, you must also give us 30 days notice of cancellation/migration.

It is frustrating that we have had to make another major change to our service at such an early stage. However, we hope you can understand the necessity of this in order for us to offer top-notch quality of service and customer care. We want to provide a service that both ourselves and our customers can be proud of.

If you have any questions, please get in touch by email on billing at multiplaydsl dot net, on our forums or by phone on 0845 868 1337 (Mon-Fri 9am-6pm).

Lucifa

21st July 2006, 12:51

Sorry to see this go, was thinking of switching to ip max on mpuk, but I can see why you did it.

Is that really that unstable?
If you can answer this, what is the rough % of people with IPMAX that didn't have or report a problem compaired to those who did?

dirtyginge

21st July 2006, 12:53

hi guys

i had a stable 2mb line for 2 years, then bt botched my exchange...i was 6 weeks without broadband before i made the decision to move to ip max and move to multiplay in order to get any kind of broadband access back ( they took out 10 streets !!!!))...therefore i really do not wish to be removed back to original ADSL for any reason as it means that my service will just cease to function......for this reason i ask

a....how do i register my request to keep ip max premium, albet capped at 2mb throughput

b...what will the monthly charge be at that time ???

sorry that you had to cease the services, i believe it was one of the best isp ipmax services in the country :(

Wizzo

21st July 2006, 12:54

I would say 90% of all our support issues are IP MAX related, such as interleaving, disconnects, low throughput, etc. The financial side is also a major consideration, with IP MAX skewing our 95th percentile figures wildly, but we were already considering this based on the sheer amount of time we're having to spend firefighting IP MAX issues.

One thing we didn't mention in the email was specifically how to request the other options. To do this please just drop an email to billing@multiplaydsl.net

mannafig

21st July 2006, 12:54

Sad day indeed I have had no problems at all with my connection.
What to do now?

Wizzo

21st July 2006, 12:58

If you have no problems with your IP MAX conn then just drop us a mail to billing@multiplaydsl.net and we'll restrict you rather than regrade you. That way if the situation improves in the future and we offer IP MAX again, we can just make a quick change to RADIUS.

One other idea we were considering for was to allow existing customers to keep IP MAX but have the speed restricted during peak hours and unrestricted off peak. Not exactly easy to put together an easy-to-understand package for that sort of product though.

dirtyginge

21st July 2006, 13:05

hi wizzo

i think the speed restriction is a cracking idea, at least those that wish to keep ip max can get unrestricted unpeak , as opposed to limited 24/7
regards n keep up the good work

mannafig

21st July 2006, 13:15

I only get 2Mbps connection anyway and i have had no problems with the service so have requested to keep my ip max line.

Big thanks also for being honest with your customers doesn't seem to happen often with isp's these days

Wizzo

21st July 2006, 13:28

Just had someone on the phone a bit annoyed at all this, but after some explaination of the issues they fully understood. As a result I'll give some more info on just how IP MAX is affecting costs disproportionately.

Bandwidth billing between ISPs is generally done on a 95th percentile basis. Data rate (in bits per second) is sampled throughout the day such as every 1 minute. 95th percentile means that you take off the top 5% of samples, so on 1 minute samples that would be take off the top 72 minutes of each day. In our case, taking the offpeak samples and throwing them away anyway, this leaves only 48 minutes of samples in peak time that are ignored.

How IP MAX can dramatically affect this, is if 1 or 2 IP MAX users all start doing max rate for more than 48 minutes in peak time, they will cause the 95th percentile figure to shift up from say 7-8 Mbps that our traffic is usually at, to 20+ Mbps. We're seeing exactly this just about every day, meaning our 95th figure is skewed way above our user numbers.

For example, even if we were paying BT Central cost price (£200 / Mbps / month), the difference between 95th of 7 Mbps and 24 Mbps would be £3,400 a month. We're going through a BT Central reseller meaning our cost is quite a bit more than that.

You can see examples of these peaks in usage caused by IP MAX on our usage graph for today below. You can also see the surge we get off peak (midnight-8am), but we're not bothered about that :)

http://www.multiplay.co.uk/wizzo/mpukadsl_20060721.png

Whilst this may well make this seem that this is an overwhelmingly financial decision, we were already seriously concerned about the amount of support time IP MAX issues were causing. The financial side really is the final nail in the coffin.

Shadowhunta

21st July 2006, 13:43

One other idea we were considering for was to allow existing customers to keep IP MAX but have the speed restricted during peak hours and unrestricted off peak. Not exactly easy to put together an easy-to-understand package for that sort of product though.

I really like the sound of this Craig,as a very happy IPMAX customer,i'd like more details on this if you can provide it??

Much appreciated!

Tony

RTO

21st July 2006, 14:05

I've been looking into the technical side of offering such an option (2mb peak, 8mb offpeak). We already have a similar solution in place for rate limiting customer who go over their bandwidth cap.

I had a successful trial yesterday where I managed to 'bump' my connection from 8mbps to 2mbps without causing the line to lose sync (just 2 ping timeouts) :) but we just need to look more at the integration before we can say for definite if it will be a goer or not.

JohnDory

21st July 2006, 15:06

Hi there,I've been looking into the technical side of offering such an option (2mb peak, 8mb offpeak)What are the download restrictions going to be on the GamerDSL the same as now (IP Max) metered peak (40 gig) and unlimited off peak ?

RTO

21st July 2006, 16:55

If we were able to offer this, the 40GB peak cap would still apply. Outside peak hours it would be unlimited.

As above, this is something we are looking into, but is by no means confirmed.

BinarySlave

21st July 2006, 17:47

BinarySlave

22nd July 2006, 09:34

Am i still held to a 30 day notice period? as that would well and truly take the biscuit! :confused:

My MAC was originally requested 2 months (ish) ago, and finally delivered about 3 weeks ago (its due to expire on the 27th). I had decided to stay as I found I was able to easily keep within the 40gb limit. But now will definately have to leave ...the only reason I was here was for (full speed) IPMAX (low latency gaming was a bonus).

Will I need a new MAC now (as it takes 10 days to migrate doesnt it?)

Decided to chance using my MAC and submitted to F2s. I'm going home .....dunno why I left them in the first place as I never had issues with my connection (it was more because they had traffic shaping and what I thought were low download caps).

So, thats 3 ISP's in the space of 4 months!!!!!!!! 1 closes completely and now this one stops offering the service I want :( ...Have been well and truly put off the 'independant ISP' experience.

therubble

22nd July 2006, 10:15

I'm really dissappointed was with f2s, came to mpuk costing me 35 quid extra that month for broadband will all the 30 days notice stuff, and now about to move away to zen because mpuk are closing IPMAX hence 33.99 to mpuk then another 34.99 to zen.

So this how thing has cost me an extra 70 quid for the experience. However learnt my lesson. Only using 20gig a month.

BinarySlave

22nd July 2006, 10:32

Just worked out what I have spent on ADSL since April .... shocked me quite a bit.

I decided to move away from f2s when MAX came out as I thought I could get a better deal elsewhere. I submitted my migration just after i renewed my monthly f2s sub .... that was my choice and I can live with that ... my billing then breaks down as follows:

April: £27.99 (f2s)
5th April: £35.24 (evolution)
10th May: £35.24 (evolution) (forced to pay or be cut off during migration, even tho they were closing)
8th May: £38.99 (multiplay)
18th June: £38.99 (multiplay)
18th July: £38.99 (multiplay)
21st July: £23.99 (f2s)

GRAND TOTAL: £239.43 - between April and July!

The overlaps in months were because I switched ISP's just after billing. In the case of Evolution, I had no choice, as they closed their doors and gave everyone 14 days to get off their system. In the case of moving from MP to f2s, i am having to do this just after billing or my MAC will run out*, forcing me to pay ANOTHER £38.99 for giving another 30 days notice to leave.

The point I am trying to make is this, don't switch ISP's so much! It costs a bomb!

*I originally requested my MAC as I didnt think I could live inside the 40gb limits. But found I was able to do so, so decided to stay. The MAC is nearly a month old and due to expire on the 27th, hence me using it now rather than paying another month to give 30 days notice.

ljr2004

22nd July 2006, 11:24

I have simple choice to make regarding this. Due to the 30 day notice period (which i'm not complaining about as i signed up knowing it existed) I have 2 choices.

1) I can request my mac and be billed again, leave and pay another company so effectivly paying double for one months connection, or

2) I can wait until just before my billing period before i request my mac, be regraded to 2mb (still with a max line but capped) and use up the month i have paid for before i move (i'll time it so i won't be billed again before i move)

Either way i am screwed in some way if i want to keep 8mb, which i do, so its back to f2s (despite MP having the best customer service in the world) and i'll have to take it on the chin.

I am still very annoyed at the fact i have to move again. I am in exactly the same situation financially speaking as Binaryslave, due to all the switches from f2s (100gb was a small cap at the time so i moved) to Evolution (complete waste of time) to MP (thought i had found a new home :( ) and now back to f2s cos i want 8mb. It's costing a lot more than it should and i really wish i had stayed with f2s.

But i have learnt so much in this time, like how much it costs companies to run these services and why they impose caps (still hate shaping tho) and the fact that now, a 100gb cap is excellent in comparison. I have become a lot less greedy with my bandwidth usage due to this realisation that unlimited isn't really possible unless you pay for it and it costs a lot. At first i compared 8mb ADSLmax to the normal ADSL and cried for my unlimited bandwidth and threw a fit when i didn't get what i wanted and what was promised to me when i signed up btw. Anyway, 8mb speeds = more bandwidth in a month = larger cost to the companies (I don't have all the facts atm but i put this whole mess down to BT wholesale, they seem greedy and overcharge imo, not mp or any other small company trying to make a profit, thats what a business is for, to make money not to lose it just to make customers happy)

Oh well, at least your honest, more than i can say for a lot of companies that try to hide behind excuses, well done :)

Nice knowing you Multiplay :wavey:

andyf

22nd July 2006, 12:47

What's the price change for restricting an IP MAX down to 2mbit ?

SacredUK

22nd July 2006, 13:28

I'm more than happy with my IP MAX Premium service a the moment i'm annoyed that the majority of users of the IP MAX services are spoiling it for people like myself.

I'd like the 2mb peak and 8mb off peak idea but as long as i keep my 832kbps upload i don't mind being restricted to GamerDSL download, how would only having 2mb down and 832 upload affect the my price which stands at 38.99 atm?

Chicane

22nd July 2006, 13:34

BinarySlave

22nd July 2006, 23:34

I'm more than happy with my IP MAX Premium service a the moment i'm annoyed that the majority of users of the IP MAX services are spoiling it for people like myself.

Who is ruining it for you?!!!!!

Multiplay have advertised and sold a product! Are you seriously saying that anyone who uses this product is doing so to the detriment of yourself?

The quoted problem (and reason IPMAX appears to be ceasing) can occur when just TWO IPMAX users download at the same time. IPMAX users cannot tell their connection to download slowly just to suit other ppl!

Say_Ten

23rd July 2006, 07:32

As you say BinarySlave it only takes a few users to scew the results for the company and then everyone has to pay. The trouble is 95 percentile is a stupid billing system. For example, if you had 10 IP MAX users all with 8Mb and 5% + 1 samples taken are at 8Mb and all the other samples are at 0Mb the company would be charged as if they were using 8Mb all the time...

Karsh

23rd July 2006, 08:48

best of luck you lot, shame you had to drop it but reasons are clean and understandable.

BinarySlave

23rd July 2006, 09:14

Who is ruining it for you?!!!!!

Multiplay have advertised and sold a product! Are you seriously saying that anyone who uses this product is doing so to the detriment of yourself?

The quoted problem (and reason IPMAX appears to be ceasing) can occur when just TWO IPMAX users download at the same time. IPMAX users cannot tell their connection to download slowly just to suit other ppl!

Apologies if this post seems overly harsh! (note to self: dont post on forums when you get back from the pub on a saturday night!) :)

Zag_uca

25th July 2006, 00:00

I liked the sound of Multiplays MaxDSL was dithering about moving but I'm glad I didn't jump straight in. I've been on MaxDSL since April and its worked fine for me. Best dl speed was about 750KB/s and apart from the throttling applied by f2s, can still make it on multiple downloads running concurrently.

Its a shame you can't make it work, and putting caps on now that broadband tv is here won't be an incentive for anyone looking for a new service provider. Maybe BT will be allowed to set its own prices soon instead of OFCOM forcing them, in which case I'm sure their retail pricing for ISPs will get better too.

andyf

25th July 2006, 06:21

bump

What's the price change for restricting an IP MAX down to 2mbit ?

Wizzo

25th July 2006, 07:41

You'll be charged for the equivalent product you go down to, e.g. GamerDSL

aslayeruk

25th July 2006, 10:41

Hey,

Question - same one as SacredUK - I am currently on IP Max with the 800k upload (IP MAX Premium?), after the downgrade will I pay 30 quid for a 2 meg down, 800kb up? Or will I pay that for the 440 upspeed of max? or will i go down to 256 upload for 30 quid?

As a comment - Multiplay now only makes sense as an ISP if you actually use its gaming services or as a transitory ISP for those of us who need short term contracts. The network speed is damn good but there are plenty of cheaper MAX solutions around with better download limits and/or longer off-peak periods.

RTO

25th July 2006, 11:12

Maybe BT will be allowed to set its own prices soon instead of OFCOM forcing them, in which case I'm sure their retail pricing for ISPs will get better too.

This is where it gets interesting, OFCOM are forcing BT to keep their prices higher, to allow LLU providers to get off the ground. However it's almost like reverse anti-competition for us little fish :(

CyberDrac

25th July 2006, 11:14

Multiplay now only makes sense as an ISP if you actually use its gaming services or as a transitory ISP for those of us who need short term contracts. The network speed is damn good but there are plenty of cheaper MAX solutions around with better download limits and/or longer off-peak periods.
... and that is exactly why it was set up in the first place and why various changes have been made to ensure that it benefits people who wish to use it for that purpose, and dissuades people who don't want to use it for just high speed, low latency gaming on Multiplay's servers. So you have hit the nail on the head with that observation.

CD

bvark

25th July 2006, 11:27

This is where it gets interesting, OFCOM are forcing BT to keep their prices higher, to allow LLU providers to get off the ground. However it's almost like reverse anti-competition for us little fish :(

... because when Ofcom deregulates and BT Wholesale apply quantity discounts, your margin is *bound* to increase!

RTO

25th July 2006, 11:36

I imagine it will be substanitally less than what we're paying currently.

You on the LLU hand of course will love it ;)

bvark

25th July 2006, 11:47

It may be substantially less than you're paying right now, but the level playing field that prevents larger ISPs from receiving significant economies of scale from IPStream will also go away.

afty

25th July 2006, 12:06

Multiplay now only makes sense as an ISP if you actually use its gaming servicesIsn't that the WHOLE POINT of them providing the service? They are aiming to serve a small and focused community of users with specific needs - not the mass market.

johnny scottish

25th July 2006, 13:30

One other idea we were considering for was to allow existing customers to keep IP MAX but have the speed restricted during peak hours and unrestricted off peak. Not exactly easy to put together an easy-to-understand package for that sort of product though.

Finally my order has come through. After initially ordering IPMAX and now going to the GamingDSL is the above likely to be offered to new customers who initially had ordered IPMAX? My house is like a stone throw away from the exchange :S

JohnDory

25th July 2006, 14:39

Isn't that the WHOLE POINT of them providing the service? Yes, but the internet is not like most service's and in our house is not just used for gaming, I sometimes wish it was, it has to fit the many uses that users need from it.

This has to include speed (up and down), bandwidth limits, price, availability, reliability and usage.

There will be people who do not like what is happening and may leave but like wise there will be people who do not worry about the changes and stay.
Do not forget as with many things they are not making anyone stay with them as a ISP. Any one can leave at any time just get your MAC key and your off, if you change your mind want to stay just do not use it.

afty

25th July 2006, 15:17

Yes, but the internet is not like most service's and in our house is not just used for gaming ... it has to fit the many uses that users need from it.Then it sounds like you need a solution not tailored specifically for gamers...?

Baz

25th July 2006, 15:55

Then it sounds like you need a solution not tailored specifically for gamers...?

why should the consumer have to work around the service? Doesnt the nature of competative business mean that a service should work around it's customers needs?

bvark

25th July 2006, 15:56

why should the consumer have to work around the service? Doesnt the nature of competative business mean that a service should work around it's customers needs?

Does a business have to offer all things to all men in order to be competitive?

Aardvark

25th July 2006, 16:35

Does a business have to offer all things to all men in order to be competitive?
Are we communicating solely in question form now?

CyberDrac

25th July 2006, 16:35

If Multiplay didn't offer the service I wanted then I would move to another provider, but they offer something I can't get elsewhere. It has a USP, a Unique Selling Point, and that point appeals to me. If that USP is of no interest to you then you made a poor selection of ISP, you should consider the alternatives which have true benefits for you and go with those. Some people consider unrestricted downloads to be a great idea, I don't, some people consider high speed of download as being a great idea, but I don't, the same goes with price, web space, multiple e-mail addresses, filtered content, all these for the right person may be the ultimate solution. I personally want low pings and latency to my favourite gaming servers and am happy to pay a premium price for that luxury, if I didn't then I wouldn't have signed up or I would have moved by now.

CD

Joey[kins]

25th July 2006, 16:39

the nature of competetive business is that you find an untapped market and offer a service to it. for a gaming service there is nothing better than MPDSL. end of story.

afty

25th July 2006, 17:17

why should the consumer have to work around the service? Doesnt the nature of competative business mean that a service should work around it's customers needs?So errr... are you saying that Ford should only sell one size of car that is perfect for everyone?

There is plenty of room for specialist services in all markets, and indeed some needs can ONLY be met by such non mainstream offerings. For everyone else there's AOL.

RTO

26th July 2006, 13:06

So errr... are you saying that Ford should only sell one size of car that is perfect for everyone?

Just so we're clear, you can have MultiplayDSL services in any colour.... as long as it's black :)

tbl

29th July 2006, 07:58

Just wondering if MPUK are responding to any emails??

I emailed last saturday, and AGAIN on Wednesday.... still no reponse!!

Was emailing about the MAX changes, and what my options are.

badgerstuta

30th July 2006, 16:30

Hi there, a quick question. Since the new caps have been announced I've been trying to limit my downloads to start overnight which I believe doesn't count towards the 40gb cap. Noticed downloading was slow so checked my account and it stated I'd downloaded 19.3 gb during one day in peak hours (which confused me due to my overnight download policy) and I'm now over my limit. I always try and make sure if I have something setup that its stopped before I go to work and restarted before I go to bed. My question is, is my download speed now restricted constantly until my renewal date or does it go back to full speed during off peak hours ?

Thanks in advance

Karsh

30th July 2006, 16:46

Just so we're clear, you can have MultiplayDSL services in any colour.... as long as it's black :)
Oh great :D lol

Shadowhunta

1st August 2006, 21:10

Wizzo

1st August 2006, 22:23

he's been tied up with i28 stuff and will likely continue to be until the end of the week. Hopefully be able to revisit this idea again next week Tony.

Shadowhunta

2nd August 2006, 05:24

cheers for the prompt reply Craig :)

MajorPart

9th August 2006, 23:20

Question i've just been billed for nexts month service.. at the full IP Max Premium price but acording to this i'll only recieve 11 days till i'm regraded/restricted? Whats the deal here then?

Wizzo

10th August 2006, 07:44

Question i've just been billed for nexts month service.. at the full IP Max Premium price but acording to this i'll only recieve 11 days till i'm regraded/restricted? Whats the deal here then?

As we've given a standard length of time notice to everyone, for people whose regrades fall midway through their renewal period we will be issuing a pro-rata refund for the difference in service cost.

People on IP MAX being restriction to Gamer will be charged a new price of £29.99 per monht.
People on IP MAX premium being restricted to Gamer but keeping their upload will be charged a new price of £34.99 a month.

The reason for the extra £5 is the difference in circuit rental between IP MAX and IP MAX Premium, as IP MAX Premium is charged by BT as the "office" service. If people do not wish to keep the upstream we will need to regrade them to Home 2000 or IP MAX standard. You can let us know your preferences by emailing billing@multiplaydsl.net

Hope this explains things for you.

Frag-O-Byte

10th August 2006, 11:02

if people didnt leach copywrited software, movies and games we wud have alot of good services avalible to us but because people abuse stuff, other people have to take action witch is where we all loose out because of the minority... get yourself a 2meg connection and stop Leching off bittorent and turn off your P2P software, that will fix most of your problems. you dont need 16mb connections thats just stupid.. i share a connection with 4 Pc's we all share 10MB NTL that dose us fine we all get pings of 5-119 on our games (119 on MMO) (normal servers 5-arround 90) never have i had a problem,

MajorPart

16th August 2006, 15:17

This is true.

But there are more and more services becoming available on the tin ter net.. my wifes lovefilm (dvd rental) account allows you to download some films legally. I just use IPMax on this account for gaming but need the fast upload as i'm a photographer and need to upload a shed load of image files pretty much every other day.
(btw thats not the stuff i do for my work!)

Cameras are getting more pixels, videos are getting bigger and higher quality.
You can now download full games legally that you have purchased. TOCA3 is an example and god only knows how big that file would be.

Even gaming patches are getting huge. BF2's are in excess of 400mb. So it's not just leechers that may get upto thier caps.