petition against 1.3 patch [Archive]

Langos

29th April 2006, 14:56

Originally posted by Shazz
do you play competitively for a clan? i'd assume not. As so called squad jumping, is a vital tactical asset

I find it cack, it's one of the main reasons I dont play competetivly anymore. When I did, I spent more time clicking the damn squad menu then the fire button. I say go ahead and "ruin" it, it'll be better that way.

Originally posted by Shazz
Langos you newb :f

Thank god your leet enough for both of us then.

Baz

29th April 2006, 15:08

not a fan of squad rotating
/doesnt sign

and droppable vehicles! JOY!

Baz

29th April 2006, 15:08

Originally posted by Shazz
do you play competitively for a clan? i'd assume not. As so called squad jumping, is a vital tactical asset

so was trench warfare - move with the times :p:

JeRkY

29th April 2006, 17:20

shazz>langos

(omfg thats something i never ever thought i'd say.)

Shazz

29th April 2006, 18:30

kandy

29th April 2006, 18:50

squad jumping is stupid, 'heh look im going to take this point, oh noes the rest of the team have killed themselves and spawned on the squadleader on the roof'

couldn't squad jump in bf1942......... much more fun game than BF2.

29th April 2006, 19:19

Its a good change, squad jumping is lame.

LozB

29th April 2006, 22:43

gotta disagree i welcome the remove of SJ. its cheap and yes i do play in clan games.

Langos

30th April 2006, 10:01

Originally posted by JeRkY
shazz>langos

(omfg thats something i never ever thought i'd say.)

You'd think that would hurt but... :rolleyes:

Weps

30th April 2006, 21:45

I agree with langos, and the same goes for me with it being one of the reasons i stopped playing.

Squad jumping to the extent it is used today pretty much ruined bf2 for me. Dunno about you but i certainly enjoyed amassing all your troops together and pushing in all as one unit (bf1942/bfv) rather than having some guy sneek around to their back flag and have half the team spawn on him.

The whole idea of being able to have your whole team in the same location within 15seconds seems a little lame to me and just doesn't add anything to teamplay whatsoever.

Demonic

30th April 2006, 22:07

I agree with everything Weps said tbh. It, along with certain other things, commander being one of them, put me off the game.

SENT

9th May 2006, 17:51

[PATCH 1.3 UPDATE]
We at DICE and EA are aware of the concern surrounding the coming change to squad selection. We would like to take a moment to ease the feelings of tension related to this change. Our goal is to refocus game play on team work, squad coordination and to also remove the spawning exploit used by some.

In BF2 we introduced tools that would allow players to support one another as they battle for control points. To further enhance this aspect of game play squads were introduced to give players even more tools to coordinate their efforts and support each other. Allowing squad mates to spawn on the squad leader was intended to provide an easy way for squads to stay together during chaotic battles.

Unfortunately squad leaders have been used by some to launch team wide attacks on remote parts of maps with little thought to actual team unity beyond these maneuvers. We believe this change will refocus the game play on team work and add more value to the roles of Squad Lead and Commander.
_________________
Protagonist
Community Manager
EA Games

lol is that the PC way to say STFU or what

http://forum.eagames.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14052&sid=8bd8321a810178fc7aa63e6b6b7ff1ea

Langos

9th May 2006, 18:16

Vague but it sounds good. :)

Shazz

9th May 2006, 18:17

right... EA dont actually have a clue

RJMacready

10th May 2006, 11:20

sounds like they are just developing a game that they dont actually play themselves from that, as well as seeming like their changing the game to suit the needs of very few people, when the majority of stuff complained about is that of team killing, not relating to where people spawn really.

Freelance

10th May 2006, 11:32

never mind, ea have another bf game where they're going to get everything right (tm), i hear they need your money too

Baz

10th May 2006, 11:45

and the evil corporation...they make money! and thats BAD! because they're evil!

Xilly

12th May 2006, 14:38

This will ruin the game for me, i dont play in clan games, I play bf2 with a friend of mine, we're always spawning on each other, If I die when im the leader I make him the leader, spawn on him and vice versa.

If this happens I won't play the game at all anymore.

Avatar261

12th May 2006, 15:05

lol, grow up.

Won't play the game anymore, how melodramatic.

Xilly

12th May 2006, 20:50

Excuse me, its not melodramatic at all, the only fun I get out of the game is playing with a mate or two and spawning on each other, with this function removed the game won't be fun for us anymore, and i'm certainly not playing a game just for the sake of it.

Omnituens

13th May 2006, 10:38

if you two are off doing your own thing, you are not playing with the team.

omg now you will have to be assist by teammates! GASP!

seriously, if you played this game properly from the start, this change will not affect you at all.

In a clan match at i25, we decided to try squadjumping for the first time. we played alot better without doing it, because our squads were organised, and work TOGETHER.

JeRkY

13th May 2006, 11:08

the origional proposed change is a bad one. if this was an unintended bug it should have been highlighted early on in the games life, not wait nearly a year and then change it.

fact is clans (the people who really use team play for the over all goal) have learned to use this basic technique. And clan game tactics feature such methods, and ways to counter such methods. These tactics have been developed over 10 months of serious time input into the game. To have some one turn around and say right, forget all youve learned in the last year, the game is changing.

The game has already been changed, clan players like the rest (but more so, due to the level of practice/time/team work they invest) have had to adapt. if this change doesnt work well for clan type players, those who have invested not only money, but a hell of a lot of time to the game and the community will drift away from the game.

The game will not be the same game i paid good money for.

Its like buying a sports car then a year down the line having the manufacturer recall it and turn it into a three wheeler withoput me having any say in the matter.

If this "fix" isnt applied , the public will keep playing with the same numbers they are now, drindling away at the same rate as they are now.

If the "fix" is applied, it may bring in a small number of new players, but it will be nominal.
yet it will cause a lot of players to finally say enough is enough and leave the game for "better" supported titles.

meaning an overall reduced captive audience for BF2142 and any future expansion, meaning a potential loss of sales .

maybe not enough to upset EA....sadly.

server side option= fine
non-serverside "fix"= goodbye from a large number of the core fans of the game.

Cheers to sent for posting here, away from the nightmare hole that is the ea uk forums. But sadly this news will not ease the worries of the people that have signed the bf2.se petition at all.

/my opinion only, not necisarly that of any group i may or may not represent (other than that of any BF2 player who has invested time and money on developing team play, who stands to have thier game fundementally changed to render all they have learned in 12 months useless, and all so the vocal minority of pub players that seem to make the decisions at dice/ea can claim another victory.)

Nick_Stone

13th May 2006, 12:54

US Intervention (http://usi.jarhedz.com/), Operation Peace keeper (http://www.opkmod.de/), Project reality (http://www.realitymod.com/), PoE2 (http://www.pointofexistence.com/), FH2 (http://forgottenhope.bf1942files.com/main.php?flash=no), and soon Desert Confilict (http://desert-conflict.org)

For me being a clan member, the above mods are many more times enjoyable to play than vBF2. Hopefully these mods will find themselves in ladder, and cup competitions.

TimmyNoShoes

13th May 2006, 14:14

Originally posted by Baz
and the evil corporation...they make money! and thats BAD! because they're evil!

Not half as bad as the Evil Council and Betty ;)

JeRkY

13th May 2006, 17:18

There are plenty of good mods out i'll agree. but BF mods just dont hold a big enough community to make real competition worth while.

personally, i am thouroughly dissapointed by dice/EA making fundemental game play changes 3 months into the game is bad enough, 10 months in is absolutely shocking. And it isnt asthough there are still no real bugs in the game that need fixing. filter by map name in the browser? red tag bug any one?

And then to have a post from an official source that basicly comes accross as "we understand there is concern, but in the end we just dont care about you" sickens me.

Ofcourse the post was not totally binding in its wording, and i guess we, the community will only find out how its really been changed when the patch is released. But i have to say the whole issue has from an onlookers POV been handled very badly. no definate out lined statement either way, dispite the trouble and debate this so called "fix" has sparked on the various boards around the web.

I realise we are too little to matter to those in power, but i for one hope that every single person who signed that petition makes good on thier word if this change does adversly affect the competitive level play style.

its just so sad :(

/insert standard "my opinion only" etc etc disclaimer here

Shazz

13th May 2006, 18:54

I for one, will be attempting to get the BF1942 ladders running again on ESL, as this patch will officially blow

Xilly

14th May 2006, 10:41

Originally posted by Omnituens
if you two are off doing your own thing, you are not playing with the team.

omg now you will have to be assist by teammates! GASP!

seriously, if you played this game properly from the start, this change will not affect you at all.

In a clan match at i25, we decided to try squadjumping for the first time. we played alot better without doing it, because our squads were organised, and work TOGETHER.

Infact its quite the opposite, what we're normally doing is very helpful for the team, as a lot of people lock their squads / kick you when you join one, so its hard to "work together" as you put it.

If I die when our squad / squads are assaulting somewhere, and im unable to join a squad to spawn on them, to continue to help them out.

DarklordDogg

24th May 2006, 13:12

Dear god, all this bitching because they have removed an exploit!?! because thats what squad jumping WAS, its was never supposed to be part of the game just like dolphin diving and bunny hopping.

I remember the same amount of whining when dice removed those exploits and it sounded just as pathetic.

Its a tactic none of you should have been using in the first place.

Xilly

24th May 2006, 13:30

Squad rotation wasn't an exploit, it was designed with that purpose:F

tigger

24th May 2006, 13:36

bf2 is proper screwed now, tried a game last night and really didn't enjoy it. Makes the whole point of squads useless. The fact you can't rotate the squad leader and spawn back on them makes it pointless trying to organise a group attack since when you die you've got to spawn the otherside of the map.

Really well played EA, normally we would play a few maps but after one map of dragon valley last night we all said sod this and disconnected.

To all those going 'hurray' to the patch do you a) Play BF2 regularly b) Play as a team on a server / in a squad ?

choare

25th May 2006, 10:05

Tigger, I think you weren't really using Squad play if you now find your self spawning on the other side of the map. Ask yourself, why is this? Why am I spawning on the other side of the Map? Well your squad leader either got killed or wasn't near where the rest of the squad were. In other words you got a dumb squad leader. I play squad leader and last night, I found loads of my squad mates thanking me for playing "smart". i.e. I kept myself alive where possible and I got my self into good spawning places on the map (usually halfway between a flag we owned and that target flag we were assaulting). If you like the old way, then just wait for BF2142 as that seems to have brought back in the deployable spawn point thing...

Colm (from clan Battlefield Dogs [BFDS]_

R4mbo

25th May 2006, 10:53

To all those going 'hurray' to the patch do you a) Play BF2 regularly b) Play as a team on a server / in a squad ?

I've played 1000 hours of bf2 and i always play in squads,why is there all this moaning? nothing you will do will make ea/ dice change it, deal with the changes or find a new game.

The game just requires more thought, i do agree its stupid changing the game so late, but it doesnt change the game that much, just got to make sure your squad leader stays alive, and you join a squad before you get killed.

JeRkY

25th May 2006, 11:16

why should any one have to wait for what they already had?
If it was a bug, why wasnt it marked as one earlier in the games development, rather than allowing people to get good and then (once again) knocking them right back down.

Why wasnt this a server side option?

Squad hopping, wasnt against team work at all, it was just a different form of it. At any moment you could be left in control of your squad , as previous squad leaders got killed off. It was then your responsabillity to hold back and regroup before setting off again.

as it is now, a squad leader has to play a very slow role, try to stay out of the battle and not be seen...ie. he has to do nothing. Where is the fun?

As a clan, are we now supposed to say "sorry bud" your the squad leader for tonight.....enjoy the game sat on your ass doing nothing while your team has the fun? ... how does it feel being the human replacement of BFv's inanimate mobile spawn points?

Infantry matches are now totally pointless. Karkand flag by flag = shoot the Squad leader, let them start all over again.

Im glad you got your ego stroked for staying alive, im really sure it made you feel a real hero.

And on top of all this.... yet more sodding bugs.

WHAT THE ****!

they fix what didnt need fixing (and going on the time its been around , shouldnt of been fixed) And in the process broke yet more things.

clap...clap...clap

You can just see the quake wars developers chuckling away contently to them selves after every bf2 patch.

Wubster

25th May 2006, 11:59

Id just like to add, until now the survival of teh squad leader was actually a second thought , cos if he died he left tehsquad so that peopel could spawn on teh new one etc.

Your actually going to have to play as a squad for REAL ... OMFG shock

what do i mean....

simply, your squad leader is actually valuable, this means your gonna have to protect him. OMG thats actually like what you would really do. Protect the leader.

I dont see a problem with it at all. I think it brings a little more to the game.

tigger

25th May 2006, 12:11

Jerky has covered everything already so I won't go over it again. Xilly also mentioned squad rotation which was what I was talking about.

Choare - read Jerky's post as to why. When the squad leader dies you have to spawn at the last flag point, instead of being able to rotate to a current live squad leader.

Anyway, as I say Jerky's post covers everything in greater detail :)

JeRkY

25th May 2006, 12:14

fair enough, every one is allowed an opinion, and EA/dice just chose to ignore ours.

But what will the next big gameplay change be? Wait untill everyone who is left is used to the squad leader situation, then rule out squad leaders all together?
Or perhaps only allow people who have played on EA official servers for a set number of hours and earned a set amount of relevant experience use particular vehicles in both ranked & unranked mode?
Or possibly allow a friendly zap from a medic to give his team mate a mega ultra addon HP/armour boost?

Who knows...

The fact of the matter is, the game play of BF2 gets culled without thought of the community most dedicated to the game.

And i for one am left in a situation where i have the same DVD I paid for, but sadly in no way is it the same game.

Yes I/we can adapt if i choose to. like I/we have done in the past. But why should we?

As is blatantly obvious from yet another shambolic patch release...there is plenty more that EA/dice should be working on.
This patch like every other single patch for this game has (ignoring the whole squad thing) has fixed very little but left alone/ messed up an awfull lot more.

I am sure even you [EA]Wubster, will agree the priorities are somewhat twisted. :P

tigger

25th May 2006, 12:24

Wubster, put your hand on your heart then and say you would enjoy playing as a squad leader?

I can't think of one reason why I would want to spend my entire game skulking around hiding from everyone unable to take points or get involved in fights due to the risk of dying and letting my squad down.

If I wanted to play hide and seek I'd go outside and do it, not play it on a sodding computer game! :)

Belfar

25th May 2006, 12:55

Flufball

25th May 2006, 14:12

While I am actualy somewhat in favour of the patch, I can quite honestaly understand Jerky's point about when they should've fixed it.

Honestaly, if they belived it was a bug they realy ought to have fixed it at the start.

On top of that, they've done somthing that means I can't for the life of me log in, I just freeze at the connecting to account server screen.

choare

25th May 2006, 16:02

I think nearly everyone is in agreement that making "sticky squads" a server side option was probably the best solution.

I guess when it comes to squad play, the different mechanisms suite different players.

Like any change, some will love it, some will hate it, some will leave because of it, some will adapt, and some never join squads so they don't give a damn anyway :)

Colm

mg1973

25th May 2006, 17:44

well i hate it,ive put near enough 600 hours into bf2 since day 1 and i`m sick of the constant changes to the game patch after patch.everysingle time they screw it up.

these vehicle drops and squad changes there just papering over the cracks with them and offer nothing worthwhile to the game we put so much of our time into.

i cant wait for a better game to come out so i can wash my hands of the filth that EA serve us.

mikey655

26th May 2006, 09:26

Im more annoyed at the amount of Jeeps I now see falling out of the sky....This added option is not used as EA intended (theres a surprise) and used more like a fast loading artillery (jeep) strike....Snipers beware falling jeeps, watch for falling jeeps as you are taken flags etc....Pointless addon yet again....Oh and the red tags are back once again....FFS one step foward 3 back yet again....

A very dissapointed BF2 player.....Looking forward to Quake wars Enemy Territory http://www.enemyterritory.com/

Freelance

26th May 2006, 09:59

-
http://www.ea.com/official/battlefield/battlefield2/us/editorial.jsp?src=communityupdate_052506

now if only everyone who was pissed off by ea/bf2 put their money where their mouth is (i.e. keep it in their wallet) and didn't buy the next one in the franchise. i hear etqw has pew-pew-pew laser beams

mikey655

26th May 2006, 10:13

*Please note that no uninstalling or re-installing is required by players or server admins. All servers currently running must be restarted once this change has taken place*.

Freelance

26th May 2006, 10:14

hmmm, maybe it's a behind the scenes rollback at gamespy/ea?

Shazz

26th May 2006, 10:38

Wubster, put your hand on your heart then and say you would enjoy playing as a squad leader?

he doesnt even play bf2...

mg1973

26th May 2006, 10:44

he doesnt even play bf2...

if someone doesnt even play bf2 how on earth can that person pass judgement on it?

:confused:

RJMacready

26th May 2006, 11:06

I cant ever understand EAs tinkering and meddling with the game and where they get their input from myself to make these changes, it seems a bit of a joke with each update changing the game fundamentally, just seems to me that they seem fond of making "blind changes" to a game they dont seem to play a great deal, for the sake of giving its community something to hold on to with the hope that one of the updates will cure all ills.

Wubster

26th May 2006, 11:53

Shazz you dont know what i play.... please either check your facts or stay quiet.

I play BF2 plenty thanks, althoguh not as much as some, i will be on server usually for aroudn an hour each night, yes ok not quiet HARDCORE but yes i play on them.... After all I admin them, i guess i shoudl really see what goes on IN the servers non ?!

Shazz

26th May 2006, 11:57

i'm just going on what i was told by FTA-A/affinity/Reason

they say you dont play bf2, so i based it on that. ;P

Wubster

26th May 2006, 11:58

LOL shazz, the same group that left FTA... hmm yeah nice one. actual LOL (do you think they might be biased at all)

SO let me get this right i hav eto be active in a clan war to pass judgement on a game ? I dont think so

I said i played the game.....

Shazz

26th May 2006, 12:03

this was before they left you, and had no grudge. so get it right.

Wubster

26th May 2006, 12:05

yeah whatever shazz, i know when i play and how often thanks...

JeRkY

26th May 2006, 12:15

oi you too play nicely. This thread doesnt need to turn into an argument. Dont make me moderate both your arses!

TheGuyver

26th May 2006, 12:54

Comon now laddies.... :) I happen to know wubster plays (even blows me out instead of playing wow! i mean comon!!)

But to a certain extent i do see what people are saying. I mean if they had removed wing walking in bf1942....(which arguably you were not ment to do) that would have destroyed how the game was played.

I agree that its a pain in the arse, and that people will have to change the way they play, But is that really such a bad thing? I remember tho being one of those "spawn points" in a MPUK match. It was ****ing boring ****. HOWEVER, (i belive) we won, and in no small part because of me doing what i was told to do and sticking to it ( iirc i was picked because i was trusted to do the job and not wander off, either that or i was too **** to play and Jerky didnt want to hurt my feelings heh)

I dont really see this as a bug tho, more of an oversight. TBH i dont think clans at the moment see leaders as expendable i.e 1st man in, they will often sit back in a fight to furfilll their primary duty; SpawnPoint and Heal/Supply etc. Only now, its much more important. So the Stakes of the game changes, Kill the leader now, and they cant spawn. the leader has now become the hunted. At the recent i27 final, i couldnt help but notice that the final flag is under relentless pressure because of this squad spawn ability. It was actually quite boring to watch from that point of view, i would have much rather seen a "tennis" approach to it where its being pushed back and forth. I think this change will help bring that.
What is overall disapointing is that ea/dice seemingly dont give 2 hoots about what they change and why. Sure if it was felt that publics needed this "oversifht" fixing, then make it a turn offable option.
Hell why not go the whole hog and make guns jam? faulty grenades? get cramp in muscles? or PTSD??

Oh just so you know (before anyone points it out) i have not played bf2 for quite some months now. :)

/2p

JavaCofe

2nd June 2006, 14:10

do you play competitively for a clan? i'd assume not. As so called squad jumping, is a vital tactical asset

here here! amen to that man!
have to make educated guesses now as to who is going to die first and when your squad isn't coherent on TS then all hell tends to break loose

... i would have much rather seen a "tennis" approach to it where its being pushed back and forth..
what a load of ********.. if your clan can't defend itself from a flag rush frenzy then they dont stand a chance of being able to intelligently attack their opponent's Capture Points. IE if you can't defend you can't attack

its all about ticket drain, who can kill more than be killed whether its by CapturePoint domination or hostile annihilation

althalus401

2nd June 2006, 14:26

Shock, horror. Taking flags is the name of the game? I thought getting a Jet and increasing your points, killing team mates to get it if necessary was the name of the game.

[TRS]Scotteh

2nd June 2006, 17:07

tbh i think its a bad idea to remove it at this stage in the game, its been out a fair while now and something that could of been sorted a long time ago if it was such an "issue" the only people who have complained about it are going to be the people who cant do it effectively and therefore dont like it, it wasnt in 1942 so u never had the option to use it and so it was never part of the game, u cant compare bf2 to 1942 solely on the squad spawning as they are very different games.

imo the spawn on squads was part of the bf2 game, it was in from the beginning and has been all this time, to remove it now after having it in this long is just plain stupid imo, its a good tactic in clan matches and to remove it now is just EA all over imo.....retarded.

mg1973

11th June 2006, 16:51

heres a reply from someone at dice as to why they stopped unlocked weopons on unranked servers:

"Ok, the rumor mill has run too long on this. First of all, EA doesn't make money from Ranked servers. The Ranked Server providers make the money, and in return they provide a limited number of servers to EA. EA spends money to keep things like the stats system going.

Second, the unlocks are disabled, because of abuses within the community of the alternative ranking systems, which would allow anyone to use all unlocks when they had not earned them. This kind of abuse cheapens the experience for those players (including myself) who have played and earned our unlocks the right way."

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75289&page=3

and is it true ea make nothing out of ranked servers?