I have heard grave news!! LAN parties are under attack

[Kaneda]

I have been told that LAN Arena and Elspa are ganging up to stop LAN parties.

They are attacking this fine tradition on the grounds of the amount of "copied" games in use. If they manage to get any legal support for this Multiplayuk may be done for.

I reckon if it does happen we should boycott buying games and get everything from Warez sites. WE all know they are out there.
Personally I buy games that I want although I have had Warez games, mainly because they are not available here...
but thats not the point, it is that we buy games in order to play them and the best way to do that is on a LAN so if they stop LAN parties we should stop buying games.

[Joey]

MPUK should be indemnified against this potential disgrace because of the strictly enforced "No Warez/Pr0n distribution" rule. However, I really doubt that they have a legal leg to stand on. I'd love to hear their counter-argument if that one went to court. Their only course of attack would be to turn up to i8 and check people's computers for illegal stuff, but since most multiplayer games don't require the cd to play, I really don't see how that's possible. It's just hot air from some underworked and overpaid people trying to eliminate software piracy.

/me slaps ELSPA for being pe0ns, and then waves my 100% collection of legal retail games at them.

[werewolf]

how few big lan parties there are i can't see it contributing to piracy really.

the next step would be for them to demand entry to every house with more than one PC (i mean you might be running one copy of Windows on 2 or god forbid 3 pc's).
Who is to say what is a home LAN and a LAN setup for a LAN party?
I have 4 PC's on my LAN, and could host a small LAN party just by adding another HUB.

I can just see the ELSPA peons trying to check the software on people's PC's as they enter a LAN party (and i can imagine the time it would take to check every game).
I don't think they would have a leg to stand on.

Lets face it, there are much easier/cheaper/safer ways to distribute warez if you were inclined to do so.

[Thistle]

ok so i take a pc round a mates house..(surely this is a lan) how can they stop this..therefore where do they draw the line.?
there may be many reasons, im sure there are some companies that have nearly as many pcs as us on an entire network?? and as the internet becomes increasingly faster surely that would be almost the same?

[Jazza]

Sounds to me, like it was an April Fools, that's still going around

[Thistle]

i wrote that last one the same time as you and (we said the same thing basically)

[Big Giant Head]

Besides even checking every game you have on entry there are still legitimate reasons you may not have origionals

I know people who copy every game they have before they come to a lan and leave the origionals at home so they don't get lost

[Kaneda]

Its not an april fools we have spoken to elspa and confirmed they DO intend to have inspectors at LAN parties and will hold the party organisers responsible.

"MPUK should be indemnified against this potential disgrace because of the strictly enforced "No Warez/Pr0n distribution" rule. "
At I7 there was tons of Warez going around, and this elspa thing isn't just about distributing it, its also if anyone has any on their machine.

[MadMac]

[/quote]

its also if anyone has any on their machine

[/quote]

How are they going to see what warez are on your PC, as it will be an infringement on personal liberty.

There is an article being ran in PC Gamer this month which will hit the LAN Cafe where game developers are asking for royalties for using their games to make money (some are asking for some silly money). I can't see this hitting MPUK as you pay to hock your PC to the network rather than paying to play a game.

[Kaneda]

I assume they are going to do spot checks on ppl, I dont know the details of what they are wanting to do exactly but I have heard they will send inspectors to LAN parties so I guess the inspectors will wnat to inspect something...

[Big Giant Head]

they can't legally search your pc without some sort of warrant though

Its against the law

Same reason our policy can only really deal with transferring warez

We couldn't legally force you to let us search your pc for illegal stuff

[Afty]

Originally posted by Kaneda
LOTS OF RUBBISH.


Hi There. You are a troll. This post is Trolling.

If you did, honestly really mean to help instead of starting of hysteria, then please provide us with the action plan of the appropriate parties, and URLs to evidence that backs this up.

[Afty]

Originally posted by Kaneda
Its not an april fools we have spoken to elspa and confirmed they DO intend to have inspectors at LAN parties and will hold the party organisers responsible.


This is legally impossible. I believe you are trolling, but if you are not please back this up with some evidence.
*WHO* exactly, has spoken to ELSPA, who are 'WE' and to whom at ELSPA did you speak?
I will gladly phone them up and speak to them myself. There are so many legal barriers to them enforcing anything of this kind, that it is currently a ludicrous suggestion.


Originally posted by Kaneda
At I7 there was tons of Warez going around, and this elspa thing isn't just about distributing it, its also if anyone has any on their machine.

ELSPA cannot gain access to my PC. While we do not have a (mainly redundant) bill of rights exactly like the USians do, before an officer of the law, or regulatory officer can inspect my PC they must obtain my permission, failing that they must obtain a warrant. To be a valid warrant, it must be issued by a judge, and the request must be made for one with 'reasonable cause' for the suspicion of an offence.

ELSPA will not be doing spot checks at LANs in the foreseeable future.

I am not a lawyer, I am however very active in, and have a great deal of knowledge regarding, your freedoms and rights - particularly in relation to IP, unlawful arrest/investigation and free speech.

Please, if you have any URLs or concrete information on this subject, post it here and I will bring it down in flames.

[Afty]

Originally posted by MadMac


There is an article being ran in PC Gamer this month which will hit the LAN Cafe where game developers are asking for royalties for using their games to make money (some are asking for some silly money). I can't see this hitting MPUK as you pay to hock your PC to the network rather than paying to play a game.


Correct, possibly. Currently games service providers do not have to pay license fees for SERVERS for any games that I know of, however it would be trivial for Games Developers and publishers to create EULAs that require an hourly fee for running a server, or a per-client/seat fee just like server Operating Systems from Microsoft work.

It could hit MPUK, especially if some games don't have a combined client server (which you could use to get around this) but instead must use a different piece of software (licensed under different terms).

[Wizzo]

Well said Afty... couldn't have put it better myself. I'm also in the process of writing formal Terms and Conditions of participation in an MPUK event, that must be agreed to on signup. This is further protection for us against any attempted placement of liability with MPUK for what customers do on our networks and at our events.

[Afty]

Originally posted by Kaneda
I assume they are going to do spot checks on ppl, I dont know the details of what they are wanting to do exactly but I have heard they will send inspectors to LAN parties so I guess the inspectors will wnat to inspect something...

They can watch to make sure people aren't standing up shouting 'WHO WANTS A COPY OF BLACK AND WHITE'.

However, even if someone gives a silver CD, of a game that has been copied, to some guy on the next row there is still no proof of copyright infringement.

(Please don't use the word piracy, it's a propaganda term that certain industries wish us to use in order to make infringement seem a more serious crime)

The guy could own a license to use the software legitamtely, but not have it with him, or he could just need the CD.

The worst they could do would be to ask people what their names are, and mark them down for investigation, unless you are stupid as you need to be to do what I mentioned in my first example at the start of this post.

You don't, of course, have to tell them your name, as they are not officers of the law. They would have to get a warrant again (see above post about how hard to get one) to get Multiplay to release your name, although the seating plan is publicly available...

Basically, don't be stupid, they have *very* little power, and if by chance one did turn up, and did harras someone I would be only *too* happy to stand by their shoulder, remind them of their rights, ensure they did nothing to incriminate themself, and generally make the weekend a bummer for the ELSPA representitive. If they did try to turn up and do a 'Big Brother' on the event, I am tempted to spend all weekend following one of them around from a distance of six inches, in the name of ensuring that they do not interfere with the smooth running of the event.

I wonder, would they be paying the spectators fee??

[Afty]

Originally posted by Wizzo
Well said Afty... couldn't have put it better myself. I'm also in the process of writing formal Terms and Conditions of participation in an MPUK event, that must be agreed to on signup. This is further protection for us against any attempted placement of liability with MPUK for what customers do on our networks and at our events.

Yeah ;) - I meant to mention some time ago that we should really have a very comprehensive statement of our policy on copyright infringements at the event displayed on the website, and that must be agreed to implicitly by spectators and participants before thir booking is confirmed.

Oh, in addition you know those warez FTPs that say 'you cannot enter here if you are a government agent, police, FBI etc.' that really don't cover their asses because they mean nothing? Well, a statement in the MPUK terms and conditions would have meaning, because it is a legally binding contract between MPUK and the participant, so it's quite feasible for us to request that anyone with associations with ELSPA / BSA etc. must declare this in their application form.

In addition, MPUK reserve the right to refuse entry, right? ;)

Terminology *so* important (got a company lawyer) - I'll be happy to look over it sometime for you if you like, need to avoid the specifics (specifically (doh! recursive puns...) 'warez' which I believe has no legal meaning...) and stick to 'copyright infringement' and other such broad terms which leave us clean ;)

[Edited by afty on 12th April 2001 at 13:51]

[werewolf]

i'd forgotten that a PC is classed as personal property requiring permission of the owner/co-owner/user to search without a warrent :)

That would be a bit of a bummer for any ELSPA people because most people seem to be pretty posessive of their PC's (I hate anyone else using mine, even more when they do so without permission), and would most likely say "no way".

I wonder what they would make of the 1000+ MP3's i have on my PC.
Almost all are "legal" as most are from my CD collection, and almost all the remainder are from my older brothers collection of CD's ;)


[Edited by werewolf on 12th April 2001 at 15:51]

[MONK]

I have had a quick look around the ELSPA site I saw no news of this action being taken place.

[KermitTheFrag]

ELSPA are spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt), just like the way anti-virus companies spread it like
"you gonna die if you dont buy xyz antivirus".

Ignore all this - they and other groups have been doing this since the mid 80s and they wont go after you. Individual people arent worth busting, only the piracy rings that sell hundreds of copies of Off2k etc etc. Thats who they're really after and I agree with them there.

This story comes up once every 6 months or so. If they do anything about it, it'll cause them too much bad publicity so they wont.

For example, schools have the highest proportion of pirate software than anywhere else - I think (legalese) my old school was running 100 users off a cracked NetWare 4 server AND they were investigated but nothing happened. Do they go prosecuting schools? - nope they leave them alone because it would be bad publicity.

Having 5000 angry gamers after their asses because one fellow person got done would be as bad, even though we are classified as a `subculture' in modern society by the ignorant.

Gripe over.

[Thistle]

i also heard somewhere that you are allowed to test a game for 24 hours to see if you like it before you buy/dont know how true this is though??

and surely we have the right to refuse entry to our events?
unless they do have a warrant of some sort? like if they come to your house and say..let me in to look at your pc?
hmm
no-go away!

[werewolf]

I'm not sure but aye, it's what they reckon with roms at any rate.

as to warrents, i think they would need one for every PC (and i can't seen any judge handing out 800+).

[MONK]

They would need 800 and they would need to prove to the judge that there was a good chance of them finiding something for every single one!

[Afty]

Originally posted by Thistle
i also heard somewhere that you are allowed to test a game for 24 hours to see if you like it before you buy/dont know how true this is though??


No, this isn't true I'm afraid. Fair use clauses apply to music and films usually, because you don't sign an EULA, software on the other hand, cannot be used on two different computers at the same time. There is nothing, however, to stop your friend from uninstalling a game he owns legitiamtely, and giving you the game. If you don't like it you can give it back, if you do like it you can buy it from him, or buy from shop and give it back to him. The copy you use must be legitimate, not a warez version though. Also, no money must exchange hands for the period where you borrowed it, as that is a lease which is probably illegal...

Originally posted by Thistle
and surely we have the right to refuse entry to our events?
unless they do have a warrant of some sort? like if they come to your house and say..let me in to look at your pc?
hmm
no-go away!


Yes, we do have the right to refuse entry...getting them to admit who they are though is hard, and if they pay money up front, we can't eject them unless they clearly break the terms and conditions, hance my idea to force declaration of association with a government or software/music industry organisation before payment is made.

Just my £0.02.

[Cabe]

afty, E'Gads man, where did you learn to be so lucid?

However, asking for personal information (that could be deemed) uneccessary to the event is a violation of the Data Protection Act. As these poeple are also sometimes undercover police officers, on official business, they would make a point of NOT telling you who they are.

Although if they were trying to "entrap" people by offering warez, etc... and had signed an agreement with MPUK to the contrary, I wonder what MPUK's position would be with regard to kicking them out.

[WhiteKnight]

Originally posted by afty
Just my £0.02.
[/B]

Heh, afty you must be one poor bloke... all these £0.02 you keep putting in that actually seem more like £2 worth you must be spending a few hundred quid on this board alone !!

As for them scanning my pc for illegal crap..

A) Get Win2k or NT and lock ya machine as you walk away..
and
B) Do what i do and Wipe the HD (or buy a small ish (10GB) one) before the event and just use that.
It makes the pc run so much better if i blow away all the crap on it.. but then i have a pure "Lan Box" that i can do that with, and not bugger my main pc.

I know this doesnt stop the "I`ve got a warrent" situation, but it does stop anyone from casually booting ya pc and nosing around.

[Edited by WhiteKnight on 14th April 2001 at 00:38]

[Phiebs]

Afty - like Cabe said, where did you learn to be so lucid? Just seems a pretty nice skill to have especially when you get stopped for speeding or someting :D.

I really don't think that this will ever be feesable due to all the reasons listed above. What would be feesable is all the gaming companies (Sierra...) to charge for their LAN game servers to be used in the amount that they would be used at MPUK huge LAN events? Dunno if I am correct.....errr...who can i ask....Afty? lol

Well like the title says - thats my £0.03 (couldn't resist it Afty :D)

[brainbomb]

I wonder, would they be paying the spectators fee??

I wonder should MPUK add an inspector's fee of say £500,000, then we could all play for free...

heh

[WhiteKnight]

brainbomb: LOL !!

[Phiebs]

Yeah - agreed with Brainbomb - Wizzo?

[Kaneda]

Afty, Thanks for your contributions. Ive been trying to say the same things to the guy who is telling me this stuff but I don't know as much about rights etc.

Like most ppl here I don't believe they could do anything to stop us, but my mate seems concerned that they will make it harder to organise LAN's.

Do you know the legal stance on running LAN servers and if they require you to own a network license for the game server code if you are running "for profit"?

He seems to think this is something ELSPA will be trying to enforce but I thought owning the game conferred the right to run a server.

[Afty]

As far as I am aware, all the current crop of games we run (certainly the FPS ones anyway) do not require you to pay to run network servers, even in a 'for profit' environment.

Indeed, they actually advertise this fact (that you don't even have to own a license for the game to run a server in most cases, merely to play as client) so that more people run dedicated servers, so there is more demand for the game.

Licensing models for applications will be changing drastically over the coming few years, we will have to wait and see if software follows it.

I would appreciate it, if your mate could let me know how he found out about what he did, and if he asny information he could share with me on the issue, thanks.

[Chainsaw]

Does that mean, as I work for the government, I cant go to i8? although technically after april I wont be. I've signed the official secrets act you know.

[zhardoum]

Ha, so have I, and so have half the people who ever worked on government (security) computer systems (MOD)..

I could tell you when and where, but then I would have to kill you straight after.. :)

I think I also signed once that I would never
a) start up my own ISP company of more than 8000 users in less than 2 years
b) create a time management program for sales offices...
c) Disclose which manager was fired for sexual harassment, (but SHE was a pain though!!)
d) Tell who it was who emailed the entire database to our competitors
e) let on the fact that all emails for **** & **** (think of sugar) and recorded and all non company emails are logged and sent to line managers for scrutiny, even though no action is taken until the number of non work emails reaches 50, and that web pages are scanned in the same way..
f) exactly who it was that put a dead hedgehog in my maths teachers desk...

[werewolf]

lol

I can guess who put the hedgehog in your teachers desk.

It was little Johnny Jenkins from 5b wasn't it;)

[zhardoum]

No, it was williams, and it was mr 'smarty Marty' Mc Shane's desk..

and when he shouted what the hell is the this ..

the class replied..
'its like your car sir, the pricks are on the inside'

hey this was 20 years ago, it was funny then.....

[werewolf]

lol

[Deep Blue]

Casually booting my pc?

/me thanks got he has a burner

but i'll be damned if im buring 50 gigs to cd (although what if my HD's crash?)

There is no human way they can stop lan's and as for inspecting machines, theyd have to pay inspecter type people for working at weekends and having police come round with them, by all means lock yer pc when u aint using it but i cant see any probs with gettin searched. I know from scotlan that there was tons of "warez" floating about, but above that full lenght hardc0re pr0n. Anyways im going off topic hehe, my personal opinion is, they cant do squat, and MPUK would be foolish to support such a policy willingly.

[WhiteKnight]

I think this is all just scaremongering... (sp ?)

I dont think that it has any real basis in reality as the feasibility of such an idea is non-existent.

[MONK]

This still going on...... hmmm!

[Kaneda]

Is there gonna be a Tribes 2 Server running at I8?
I notice in the EULA for it that it says you do need a special license to run a server at a site based event.

[Wizzo]

i8 is being sponsored by Havas Interactive, who own Sierra, who own Dynamix, who wrote Tribes 2. It won't be a problem :

[Scarr]

Schweet....sponsorship is good :)

[WhiteKnight]

I think i speak for us all when i say "Whoo Hoo !"
:D

[Kaneda]

In the words of Monty Burns "Excellent" :)

[Messy]

if they asked for permission to enter my pc i would simply say no...then they ask why....if you go ask any single gamer here if u are allowed to touch their pc....and they will all say no...simple....get a warrant for every single person at the event otherwise....the door is that way....with my foot following.

[Idylla]

Well

I know that i get very tetchy when even my friends touch / use my pc, so i doubt anyone else especially an inspector is going to get anywhere near it.

Before lan events i always do the following:

Password protect the BIOS
Password protect the boot loader menu
Have Administrator users for both OS's and not allow anyone else to logon.
Lock the win2k os when i'm not using it
Have a screen saver thats set to 5mins or so which is password protected.

Limited things i know, but they can help prevent unauthorised access

[Afty]

Actually DTK, that's a pretty secure setup.

Screensaver = reboot PC
BIOS passy = turn PC on with BIOS battery out (of course, somewhat conspicuous)
Bootloader passy = dependant on OS. Need to boot from floppy.
Locking Win2k = Not a great deal someone can do to get into this PC.

If you secure your case so no-one can get in to pop the BIOS battery (and make sure you aren't booting from a: as priority) and you lock your 2k, then you're looking pretty secure to me.

Russ

[Cabe]

on cirtain MSI mobos, there are header pins for a "Case Open" switch, if you config the system right, if the case is opened the machine refuses to boot till the password you enter into the CMOS is entered, oh and BTW the CMOS is non-volitile vor those out of the know, ie doesnt need a battery and there is no jumper to clear it.

[BHODOG]

yo guys
i have heard of this all before and i have looked into it cos we have a little lan between friends up here in the north east aint big normally just about 10 of us getting together and fraggin each other to ****!!

but i have to state the same point everyone else has they cant prove anything and it would be too much hassle:
for 1 they cant actually search your machine unless you allow them to and if you dont want them 2 then they need a warent and you think they going to get a warrent to search a few mesly files on a pc they got more important things to get warrents for.
2nd if you r at a lan and everyone is playing a game and mebies you forgot that game and you need cd to run it wich on most mplayer games you dont and you ask the guy next to you or someone else to burn you a copy cos you forgot yours they still cant do **** because they cant provew wether you have that game or not so if you have and have actually forgot it then you aint breaking no laws it exactly the same as you copying it for yourself!
3rd your going to lan and dont want to have to take all your cds with you what is the best solution for that no cd cracks and if they c you starting a game that needs a cd and you dont put one in you can say i got no cd crack didnt want to bring all my cds in case they got damaged and ti would of took to long to burn them all off and a waste of cds really so i just dled a load of cracks for the games, they still cant prove anything.

And even if they did find anything on your machine warez and they going to get at organizers for it then most lanners dont need to worrie because they cant take your machine without a warrent and formatting machine or delteing the evidence aint to hard of a thing to do.

is it so it is all proberbly bull sh*t and you proberbly dont have any worries of being found out for your pron or warez sh*t

[Kaneda]

new news, I am told by one of the directors of the VGA (ie the thing setup by LANarena to screw us all) that MultiplayUK ARE going to pay the VGA and have agreed to having everyone checked at the event for original copies of games, and if they don't have them they will be told to leave.

The idea behind the VGA is that ppl wont want to go to LAN parties anymore because of their facist policies and therefore LANarena will have the monopoly on multiplayer gaming. That is why they have assigned at least 4 ppl including a director of the VGA to go and do this checking.


Wizzo, is it true that the tribes 2 championship type thing was gonna be hosted by MPUK and now LAN arena have stolen it?

[Edited by Kaneda on 1st May 2001 at 16:39]

[Wizzo]

Kaneda,

I don't know who you are talking to about this but there is some serious misinformation going on. Multiplay UK have made no agreement with the VGA or anyone with regards to checking software at a LAN party event. Nor have we made an agreement to "pay" the VGA.

The final for the Tribes 2 ukcup is being help at our i8 event. This is in association with Sierra (a Vivendi Universal Interactive Publishing Studio) and will see both finalist teams (8-men each) being brought expenses paid to i8 for the final showdown. There will be a special Tribes 2 final area at i8, with extensive press and TV coverage. Suppose now is as good a time as any to write the official announcement for the MPUK site :)

I don't appreciate these sorts of disinformation being spread about us, and would like to nip this in the bud asap. Please could you get in touch with me Kaneda? Ring the office on 023 8024 3137 or catch me on ICQ (3170276).

Hope this sets the record straight.

[Kaneda]

OK,
having spoken to wizzo (who is slightly more trustworthy than the LANarena ppl) it seems LANarena are stretching the truth a bit.

They said they had an agreement etc. as per my previous message, wizzo has spoken to them but like he says not agreed what they claim.

I wouldn't doubt that they will send some ppl to TRY and inspect gamers stuff so be prepared to tell them where to stick it. It is definately worth having a look at the Law and having the relevant articles pertaining to your rights handy to quote if they get shirty...

[Culture]

The amount of (miss)information flooding around here is incredible...

The only really credible evidence we have is that Afty must have done a whole load of dodgy stuff in his past to warrant knowing the personal privacy laws inside and out.
I bet whenever anyone comes to his house he stands on the door asking "Are you a police officer or agent of the government".

/me eyes afty and his reactionary ways suspiciously.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[MONK]

I stoped reading this thread a while ago ;)

They won't be able to do anything and there we go.

[Idylla]

I would ask that Kaneda please get your facts right before you start scaremongering like that.

Its not funny, its not right.

Most of all its not clever.

[Afty]

Originally posted by Culture
The only really credible evidence we have is that Afty must have done a whole load of dodgy stuff in his past to warrant knowing the personal privacy laws inside and out.
I bet whenever anyone comes to his house he stands on the door asking "Are you a police officer or agent of the government".

/me eyes afty and his reactionary ways suspiciously.


Hmm, not quite true. I'm just kinda interested in liberties and human rights. I'm of the opinion that we, as a race, have sacrificed a great deal of personal freedoms in order to get a few extra gadgets and toys, faster cars etc. and they're not decisions I would have made.
Consequently, I'm not happy to have my freedoms restricted and privacy invaded when I can avoid it ;)

Also, having said that, it's illegal for me to have this bag of weed here on my desk, so I guess that's a practical application of knowing the law, in case anyone should come-a-knocking.

[Avatar261]

Afty's a bit of a red ken :))))

[Afty]

Originally posted by Avatar261
Afty's a bit of a red ken :))))

I haven't heard that phrase before, so I'm not sure what it means, I'm guessing though from the colour that you think I'm a closet communist?
:)

clarify plz

[werewolf]

It's a refference to the current Mayer of London.

[Cabe]

Warrents are a bad thing. A friend of mine is on the ICQ list of a peadophile(unknown at the time, known now) and his equipment was seized to see if contained any of the vile stuff on it. Worst part was he was out of the country at the time, and his parents were not impressed with the fuzz knocking on thier door at 7am and said "We want your computer gear, NOW"

[Afty]

Sounds a bit dodgy to me Cabe, but then I can understand where they are coming from with that one.

I believe in liberties, but child abuse and child porn aren't on my list of things every man should be free to do. Searching the computer equipment of known associates of paedophiles does sound kinda reasonable to me.

[Afty]

London Village?

Sorry, don't really care about London too much.

As for 'Red Ken' - what exactly does it imply then?
Socialism?

Hard to tag down my beliefs really, they don't fall under any one category but are probably regarded as more socialist than capitalist.

[Cabe]

me too, its the "you'll get it back in a month, more if we cant be arsed to check it sooner" thats pissing him off.

[WhiteKnight]

What do you think they`ll do about the data (school / college) and pron he`s bound to have on his machine (even if it isnt pics of kiddies) ? Wipe it ? Confiscate the drive ?

I mean, I heard (on TV I think) that is is LEGAL to download pron (not kiddie pics), but not legal to distribute it.

I`m unsure of this tho.

WK.

[Scarr]

I think your right on that one WK.

Cabe, was it Torne who got his stuff seized?

[Cabe]

Aye, how did you guess?

[Afty]

'hardcore' porn is illegal as far as I am aware.

You definitely cannot sell or distribute it, but I'm fairly certain that hardcore porn (I defined the difference between legal/illegal porn somewhere on this thread I think...) is not legal even to posses.

Having said that as long as there *is* no child porn on there (and let's face it, most people who have downloaded a large quantity of porn from the net probably have some in there, even if not deliberate) then probably nothing will be done. I've yet to see someone prosecuted for owning some dutch or american videos, they usually just confiscate the goods.

As for what they do with his HD if it does have illegal materials, good question. Very legally grey area methinks.
I would expect them to confiscate the lot.

[Cabe]

Afty, once again we marvel (and are slightly worried) at you authority in such matters. As far as ive heard, owning it [Hardcore Porn] isnt illigal, just the sale of it is restricted.

[Edited by Cabe on 3rd May 2001 at 14:06]

[Afty]

A few people have that view, and I honestly don't know if it's an urban legend or not.

As far as I was aware, it's illegal to own material involving digital penetration (that's 'straight' sex, anal sex, fingering, oral sex) or anything 'harder'.

I would like to look into this more. I was under the impression the UK didn't have any 'circumvention' laws like the USA yet. A circumvention law being one which leaves you believing you have your freedom (the freedom to own hardcore porn for example) but actually removes it by making it illegal to sell, distribute or obtain it.

I do know that a guy was jailed a while ago for selling naked pictures of his 18 year old girlfriend (with her permission) to magazines. She was rather young looking, so when they split up and she wanted to get her revenge, she claimed the pictures were *taken* a few months before her 18th birthday. The guy got 3 months category D time for it.
Dodgy ground if you ask me.

[Wizzo]

It is not illegal to possess pornography, even hardcore porn. It is however illegal in the the UK to possess pornographic material involving children and/or animals. However, obtaining or distributing porn IS illegal, leading to an interesting situation where you can possess it, but not legally obtain it. That's right, downloading hard core porn is illegal, but once you've got it, unless they can prove you obtained it illegally, you cannot be done simply for being in possession of it.

You can tell I just spent 3 hours at the solicitors this morning going through a whole load of legal stuff, porn and warez being two of the main issues we are concerned about in relation to our LAN parties.

[Wizzo]

Oh and our solicitor nearly fell of his chair laughing when I told him about plans for FAST/ELSPA to check everyone's machine at an event. It would require a very strong court order (one which takes away rights granted under the Human Rights Act and is hence VERY hard to obtain) for each individual whose privacy they wish to invade. I think it's just about time to end this whole scaremongering debate and brand it for what it is.

[Patch]

Sorry to bring down the tone of this thread but I really must say that LAN-Arena suck d|ck :D

[WhiteKnight]

Cheers Wiz (or should that be Cheese Whiz ?) I thought i was close on this one. The program i saw had some police bloke who said that.

So just make sure you delete ya internet logs, and wipe the schoolgirl and goat pron directories and you`ll be ok.

Lol :D

WK.



[Edited by WhiteKnight on 3rd May 2001 at 19:34]

[WhiteKnight]

Oh BTW:

Encrypting your pron dir makes no difference as the police can now demand you give them your keys or codes to unlock it, or you`ll go down for up to 5 years i think...

Thats assuming the full RIP bill passed?... anyone?... Afty?...

WK.

[Wizzo]

I think this thread needs closing. If you guys wish to discuss privacy law more please create a new one... want to lay this "LAN parties under attack" thread to rest.

Cheers,