countering cheese in -ap games

[Joey[kins]]

since everyone appears to have decided that ap is the way forward can we please have some sort of system to counteract the broken heroes and the "predictibility factor"?

can i suggest that we list "a number" of heroes per team or per player that you can't choose to keep a bit of variety in the game, otherwise we're going to end up with extremely samey games from now on which kind of defeats all of the appeal of dota. perhaps we could have some sort of team penalty for every hero that you list (you have to drop a circlet of nobility in the middle for the other team for each hero that you block perhaps)

of course the other option would be to impose the LAN style tiering system (you can pick because you're "new", you can fo and -random, YOU can do -random -repick k thx)

either that or can we start playing some reverse pick games?

comments etc go go go


PLEASE NOTE: This isn't directed at any one individual, it's not as a consequence of any specific game, it's not a personal attack or anything else like that. It's because all of the appeal of this game comes from its almost limitless variety. If we start playing games where everyone picks the same heroes every time it's going to get quite dull, quite quickly and I'll go back to playing Allegiance and UT.

[afty]

Reverse pick is bloody brilliant. Also now we've got over our AR binge, can I suggest we do some:

-id - item drop mode is an interesting twist, and makes people alot more defensive. Not to be played with newbies around, but really cool.

-ar -dm This game mode above all is ROCKING. Encouraging significant defensive play *and* if someone on the opposing team gets a broken hero, taking him down actually MEANS something - because as soon as he spawns he no longer has that hero. Someone got clinkz? Grab a gem and a stunner, run around as a team and FIND him ;)

[Dan]

-re or -ar -dm sounds great 8]

[Joey[kins]]

i'll go with some -tr -dm (unless -ar -dm means that both teams go through the complete list of heroes, however i'd say that the overall scourge/sentinel balance is very good) but i'm definitely up for seeing our main mode of play switch to -re, not only does it encourage variety but it'll force us to get good with the "crap" heroes, plus as discovered at stafflan certain combos of "crap" heroes suddenly become very harsh indeed...

it'll be interesting if we suddenly reach a point where we're giving the other team people like razor and crystal maiden because "i daren't give them pugna or magnus" :smokin:

[Quietus]

I LOVE the idea of reverse pick.

Let's go with it.

[Lucifa]

-re is clearly the way forward for pro games.
Some very cool games last night, shame I dropped out the DM game, I wanted to play that :(

Also remaking if someone drops is good, though possibly some sort of time limit on that? IE if it's the first hour/half hour we remake otherwise carry on depending on concensus?

Points of note:
Not many people like broodmother, she's a tough cookie to play, possibly a good choice for re. Unless you are a picking for Afty...

Tinker is fun to play, especially because you get FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS!

[afty]

-re was excellent, more of the same please Bob.

As for restarting, I think it should always be the choice of the team a man down whether to restart or not.
Dropping one from a 5v5 is bad, but you still have a "spare" who can float between lanes, setup ambushes etc. Dropping a player from a 4v4 means you are on person per lane, and it's almost an auto-loss.

[Kaution]

-re was really fun, i generally try and play any hero anyway and its quite nice finding out what hero gets picked for you :) aswell as trying to do someone over with giving them a crappy hero :) will get more people used to the "crappy" ones not that i personally think there is many.

as for Restarts i think always on 4v4's or 3v3's - and for 5v5s let the team who is one man down decide between them :p

[DaeMord]

didnt like deathmatch i found it to imballenced once one hero had got a leg up, the usual 1 level advantage gained upon a kill is changed into a 2 level advantage, if this happens twice on a good hero there is a 4 level advantage and very difficult to take down.
Interested in trying item drop, but as i said last night, -RE IS the way forward
For me its basicly playing random with equal teams, as random is normally decided by who gets the most stunners, well now it doesnt matter ur making sure the other team gets non, so both teams are even, CRAP, so generally its all good.

[afty]

Originally posted by DaeMord
didnt like deathmatch i found it to imballenced once one hero had got a leg up, the usual 1 level advantage gained upon a kill is changed into a 2 level advantage, if this happens twice on a good hero there is a 4 level advantage and very difficult to take down. Yeah - this seems really bad at first, but once you get used to the mode you will realise it actually cancels out one of DOTAs most annoying weaknesses - the problem of one hero going on a rampage.

In normal -ap or -ar DOTA, once one hero gets ahead, killing him doesn't do much... Someone like Clinkz can accelerate away and killing him a few times doesn't stop him dominating a game.

In -dm -ar if a hero appears to be getting to powerful, you gangbang him with all five of you if needs be. When he spawns, not only has he lost a level (or two!) but he also has a completely new hero. If someone is a long way ahead, you hunt them down 2/3 times in a row, and they can go from level 16 with Clinkz to level 11 with Pugna.


It requires a different style of play to regular DOTA where you just plug away and try to drop towers, in -dm-ar you *must* pay attention to heroes, you must be aware of who is the on the map, and who you should be trying to kill first.

I like it :)

[D0c]

I <3 dm

-re was quite good too, once we got it working correctly. Just a shame it doesnt allow -re -ap.

[Joey[kins]]

if i wasn't stuck in france I'd be playing some this evening...

[Dan]

Not at home atm, but will be online tonight for a poker game, got my laptop with me so could try a bit of -re :)