Best Race?

[Freelancer]

what do you think of the different races? Which one do you think is best. Explain :)

[XomB]

Chaos for me, they build the slowest but seemly have the strongest/most damaging armies. And you've gotta love it when you force labour the heretic to death :)

[Valane]

Only got the demo :'(
Love marines so far though and planning to get the full game soon.

[Optimus]

the other races seem so hollow when compared to the Space Marines, but thats probably because they had to be fleshed out for the single player campaign...

shame really... the game would have benefitted from full campaigns for all races, ala. WC3...

[Zakalwe]

Eldar baby, gotta love their potential for sneaky tricks.

[afty]

In the endgame, the marines seem overpowered to me, Termies and Land Raiders are monstrously powerful, in the midgame I'm a big Chaos fan, and early game it's hard to match the Eldar rush.

The Orks to me seem... a little weak overall.

[phil]

Best Race?

I think the egg and spoon race is the best. Eldar seem to be very good in the first 10 yards, chaos are good in the middle distance, but once the Space Marines get the über-stick-o-matic-spoon tech upgrade it makes it a bit one sided.

The Orks to me seem ... better at the sack race.

[Pingman]

Originally posted by Valane
Only got the demo :'(
Love marines so far though and planning to get the full game soon.

same here, ordered from play.com the other night but the buggers are out of stock :(

[Flufball]

Ha, I play orks, they are deffintaly differnt, particualy because you're spending alot of req/power to get you're tech/unit caps up, (Damn Waagh Towers, made out of paper), but some of the better ork players do have some intresting tricks up their sleves.

I think the problem is that most people play orks like they would marines or chaos, and try and slowly tech up while producing units with upgrades/filling out their squads, despite their being few advantages to teching up for orks.

I tend to find I end the game with only Slugga Boyz + Big Mek (Mabey a Dok or two) and KillerKans (Although sometimes a single mob of nobz + Warboss).

Of course its alot harder to do this in a 1v1 without somone to back you up if it all goes wrong.

I do agree end game Marines seem to have got all the flashy extras.....

[Bonkers]

Eldar is my WOC
I like them like Zak says - dirty tricks - Seer Council is seriously powerful!

[Silk75]

Eldar clearly

Nothing compares to an Avatar and 6 Wraithlord walkin from one side, and then a horde of warp spiders behind enemy lines.

Porcupining as Eldar is fun sometimes also, you can carve people up something rotten.

[Neon]

Just going to agree, i like Chaos, they just look really cool and i like defilers and obliterators :)

[Hitori]

Space Marines are very powerful in the end game. Especially with the deep strike ability. Get your army (sans tanks) fully built up (e.g., infantry and dreadnoughts), stick them in the orbital relay, and drop them right in the middle of their base. Stops you from losing any troops on the charge. Do the same with Terminators, as if you deep strike them when you firs get them, you only get a four-man squad. Think it was Aardvark who suggested during the beta putting an Apothecary joined to Terminator squads, and in particular Assault Terminator squads, as this helps keep them alive against Afty's Chaos forces :)

[Catachan]

Originally posted by Hitori
Think it was Aardvark who suggested during the beta putting an Apothecary joined to Terminator squads, and in particular Assault Terminator squads, as this helps keep them alive against Afty's Chaos forces :)

That's a quick way to lose an apothecary. Reason being the apothecary moves faster and hence leaves the formation, meaning it arrives in front of the force, not in the middle.

[Aardvark]

Believe me, they didn't die. And neither did any of the terminators after :D Although the effect of the apoth has been toned down since, and I think term hit points have too.

[Flufball]

Originally posted by Aardvark
Believe me, they didn't die. And neither did any of the terminators after :D Although the effect of the apoth has been toned down since, and I think term hit points have too.

Mightve used it when it was buged where any unit became near invincible?

[Njoroge]

poths on term squads aren't that bad with gun-toting squads. You tend to teleport rather than walk anyway. Of course a FC on a term quad for additional damage and moral is quite nice too.

Not that I ever use terminators. SM tier 3? Give me a break... >]

[Morphix]

All sides have they're usefullness although i personally can only play SM or Chaos well. Chaos are an amazing side to play.

[PuReBall]

if you'r talking about the best race as inpersonal opinions i see ork as the best

but if you'r talking about general game balance eldar is by far the easiest race to play

the only problem they have is early rush vs marine that can be hard to stop , but after that, mass spiders , grav platforms , its generaly just attack move GG with eldar :/

the general game is biased towards MEELE attack with the f2 bug etc and unit pathing making it hard to occupie every squad with hand to hand, especialy the map with the river in the middle , its so hard to win a game as ork on that map :/ sluggaz = cannonfodder

i'm getting into the top 10 ladder now ^^

[Bonkers]

I think that shows how little you know how to play Eldar - everyone thinks there rushes are hard to counter - but if you play right - entangle and plasma nades - with some reapers as backup and the farseer - it isnt TOO hard to counter a hard marine rush. Just abit of skill and some micro.

Also most of you will abuse me for saying this - but i dont see any reason not to use a Seer council either - as long as conceal isnt researched - and the squad isnt too large. They aint invincible at all - and definately make up for the lack of another commander unit when used properly!

[PuReBall]

i have no clue on playing eldar ?

i'm top 10 in the official ladder in 2 days i think that kind of says i have a clue about it :P

you just havent played enough high level play if you think its even.

i could go into the detail about it but you'r not going to believe me so all i can say is , get to top 10 in ladder and tell me its fair then :)

[Bonkers]

Top 10 huh - well i cant argue with you then can I!
(I am not arguing where you are in the ladder - im arguing the logistics of the game) There are certain parts of eldar that need nerfing.

Plasma Grens
Conceal
Seer Council

And these are confirmed nerfs!
There are a few more things up for discussion as far as i can see but nothing that will make any huge change. And tbh - the nerfs above wont change the way i play. And shouldnt change yours.
(Maybe one change - eh Aardvark ;) )

Please enlighten me EXACTLY where Eldar isnt fair compared to the other teams tho. And i will belive you if your telling me the truth - but ive read ALOT into them - the stats, the damage, the moral, the cost. I like to refine my game and get better - now i KNOW your a good player - i cannot say you arnt. But have you read into the exact workings? It seems to they lack in a few places and are stronger in others - just like most of the other teams.

But i would really like to play you sometime - maybe give me a pm and we can chat? I cant have learnt everything! and i definately dont regard myself as a pro like you! but i feel i can definately hold my own!
I

[PuReBall]

ok well first of all

try playing ork v eldar


the eldar will deffinatley spider rush (you cant mass slugga/shoota squads and rush it just doesent work)

1 volley of spider fire drops a grunt

not to mention they can teleport every 30 seconds.

seer council web - for 20 seconds+ your unit is imobolised - in other words its dead from warp spider fire , you cant cancel it out - you cant shoot effectivley

plasma grenades - mini nukes - i dont need to say more

to effectivley counter spiders you need to fast wartrak , and then the eldar just adds a few grav platforms that can fire half the range of the map.

the only problem eldar has is early rush from marine - apart from that eldar is just attack move win

[Bonkers]

not knowing too much about orcs - will the SC being moved to tier 2/3 prevent that? plus plasma being toned back down to the 1 nade it SHOULD have been. So its just a case of waiting for the patch?

As for the marine rush - i agree usually it ****s you over tho :)

edit: so the only way to use entangle will be with guardians - and they should get raped pretty easily?

[PuReBall]

i play marine sometimes because i'm sick of losing to eldar when i play twice as good as them :P

warpspiders need to do less damage v standard infintary then their teleport will be fine.

grav platforms need to be looked at , their still to good

web DEFFINATLEY needs looking at it imobolises units way to long

and plasma nades should be toned down to the damage of other race grenades

[Bonkers]

if you look at the numbers warp spiders do

Warp Spider Death Spinner:
tp_infantry_med 34.45
tp_infantry_high 29.28
tp_infantry_heavy_med 6.89
tp_infantry_heavy_high 4.31
tp_monster_med 6.89

Warp Spider Exarch:
tp_infantry_med 48.61
tp_infantry_high 55.09
tp_infantry_heavy_med 35.00
tp_infantry_heavy_high 28.58
tp_monster_med 34.03

The damage Warp spiders does to normal infanty is IMMENSE and yes they do extreme damage - but compared to heavy - is sweet FA!

Now compare this to the (BASIC) space marines bolter:

Tactical Bolters:
tp_infantry_med 9.26
tp_infantry_high 7.78
tp_infantry_heavy_med 8.00
tp_infantry_heavy_high 7.84
tp_commander 3.85

tp_infantry_low 7.00
tp_vehicle_low 3.00
tp_vehicle_med 3.00
tp_vehicle_high 3.00
tp_monster_med 7.78
tp_monster_high 3.00

You can see the damage IS significantly lower - but when you take into account squad size and cost and HP of the units.
Its pretty much even until you get to Haywire grens and also teleport!
Also taking into account the upgradeablility with Flamer/Missle Launcher/HB/PlasmaGun - for effectivity vs vehicles and also vs infantry - it makes them MUCH more versitlie than a Spider squad - where the Spiders are a speciality squad - designed for one thing!

(Stats are below)

HB
tp_infantry_med 44.27
tp_infantry_high 31.88
tp_infantry_heavy_med 19.13
tp_infantry_heavy_high 14.06
tp_commander 9.20

PLASMA
tp_infantry_med 22.22
tp_infantry_high 16.00
tp_infantry_heavy_med 38.40
tp_infantry_heavy_high 28.24
tp_commander 13.85


Grav platforms - i think shurikan cannons are fine - brightlances MAY need toning down just a touch - but if you tone down brightlances then prisms will have to go too tbh - as they are both immensley powerful!

Entangle IMO only needs a slight alterations - maybe a small reduction in the time it immobilises - but not too much or its pointleess.

Plasma nades are going to be toned down - they only do too much damage because it fires x3 the amount of nades - instead of 1 (so 3x the damage!)

[afty]

V interesting, nice to see a reasoned discussion on these forums with opinions, facts etc.!

Just on a general note re : weapon platforms, it's my opinion from a balance and "feel" opinion they need toning down. Mass platforms (to a non Eldar player) feels a little nasty - but from a tabletop players POV the amount of damage they take is insane. Just one platform can survive a massive pounding from 2 marine squads for quite a few seconds, even with a few rocket launchers in the mix - which doesn't make sense - in the tabletop game they were supposed to be support platforms - used with a meat shield in front because they were fragile, but this isnt the case in Dawn of War.

As for Warp Spiders - they're supposed to be exceptional versus light infantry but looking at the numbers, they're perhaps a touch too good when compared (again) with tabletop.

I know the game isn't tabletop but it is based on it, and many of the units are supposed to reflect their roles/power from it.

[Bonkers]

I think they are the only anti vehicle defence - bar warp spiders haywire grenades eldar have. Now yes i think they AT least need to be able to take more damage - but again thats down to the type of armour they have - they are classed as a vehicle. So a normal spacemarine squad would only do:

tp_vehicle_low 3.00
tp_vehicle_med 3.00
tp_vehicle_high 3.00

Whcih is pretty pathetic - BUT if you upgrade to missle launchers ect - then they fall with aparent ease - as they do around 10-15x that damage!

Personally - i would sacrifice hit points for speed - as they are DREADFULLY slow and its depressing when you attach then to a squad. I find they also get left behind alot when you leave them on there own.

Quite depressing really when you have 4 prism tanks and then 8 brigtlances about 3 miles behind :(

[afty]

The speed is deliberate, I think - it's possible to amass an enormous number of platforms - if they could Wizz around the battlefield like normal vehicles, there'd be no reason to build anything else :)

[Zakalwe]

In game it says they are classed as heavy infantry and not vehicles, is that not the case? I've seen platforms get totally mashed by reapers.

[Bonkers]

They count as vehicles - but have heavy infantry armour - so yes they would get mashed by Reapers :)

And Mass platforms sometimes is a lifesaver - as i usually have 6-8 webgates very close together and churn them out at speed! Great fun!

And yes i see your point about speed - but they are seriously slow :P I mean they shouldnt be called grav platforms - snail platforms is more appropriate!

[-=[M@ximus]=-]

platforms are just stupid at the very early stage :(

ave had so many elder on the run with marines, only to find when you go near there base, they have about, 3/4 of them and they slaughter 3/4 units of marines in seconds, same with spiders i think it is, or is it reapers? not sure which one exactly it is, get 2 units of them vs 3 possibly 4 (if the player knows what there doing) and they can slaughter the marines units....

i dont mind losing cause am crap, but when you clearly cant touch one or 2 different things when your on the same style tech lvl it's kind of annoying.

over all, only problems i see come from Eldar, there is the odd little thing with SM but not all that much, to counter the eldar fully once they got that gear all setup is Dread's and it's not always easy to hold out till they arrive :(

/me watches sex0r marines get slaughtered by grav platforms and reapers

[SarGara]

I have to agree, that as much as i hate it, Marines are the superior race.

For example they have about 8 different vechicles to the other races 5 or so. There vechicles are also the most customisable aka Drednaughts compared with other races vechicles which are either upgrade weapons or no customisation at all.

I would love for Orcs to pose some sort of threat but without a doubt Marines have the most going for them end game.

But my personal favorite race has to be Chaos, there walking arty [forgot the name] is my favorite unit ingame hands down :D

[maxrealism]

My fave has to be Space Marines (atm) but that's coz I'm a noob. It's fun (as stated already) that it's great fun with an Avatar :D esp. the way you knockback entire squads and crush ppl.

Must say the Squad Commander's Orbital Assault is pretty hefty though. I think it's recharge time was increased in 1.10.

[Anim]

its fairly even these days. Each race is superior at different points in the game, but not so much that they're unbeatable (except in a few situations that i wont disclose).

Eldar can easily stop a marine rush, just need a squad of banshee's or two, they tie up marines in combat easily, whilst your guardians pound them slowly but surely. And i'm a space marine player :/

[Kraken]

Why are Orks so unfavourable?
I admit ive not played with them online so that will probably answer my question, but they seemed balanced enough in Skirmish.

[Anim]

They're very hard to play right, so most newer / bad players dont attempt them.

[TimmyNoShoes]

Plus warp spiders RIP them to shreds.
Most people blame the spiders.
But its the orsk that are weak and not the spiders that are overpowered imo.