Nurburgring trip next summer

[Aardvark]

Every year about this time, I decide 'must make a trip to the Nurburgring next summer'. Well this time its going to damn well happen!

I'm thinking one of the weekends in early summer, anyone else up for it? It would of course involve driving across Belgium (ugh), but I'm sure we can all cope with that :)

Passengers welcome too, in fact the chance of riding shotgun in some of the more exotic machinery is possibly more fun than driving yourself :)

OBLIGATORY WARNING FOLLOWS:

This ain't a 'safe' place, its a risky business. General pillocky drivers need not apply, common sense is a requirement. If you're interested, read and digest the information on this site (http://www.nurburgring.org.uk) and get posting here :)

[andyf]

Of course. In.

[Pingman]

If i have a decent and fast car by then, il come, otherwise can i come along in the passenger seat of some one else that has a decent and fast car. Im could be good for filimg the circuit as you cain around it etc and documenting the whole thing?

[Aardvark]

Yep, lots of photos and reports will of course be necessary. Unfortunately in car photography/video isn't allowed, but theres plenty of spots out on the circuit for taking pics.

[Bonkers]

Maybe not a Jap Beast - but if my Beezas running 200+ by then i may make the trip :)

[JeRkY]

I would love to but my Bora TDI is for practicallity rather than speed. That said i may be able to talk a freind into this, he has got an elise and im sure he would jump at the idea, the only downside being the milage he would add to it

[Afty]

While the official fatality figures quoted by Nurburgring GmbH are very low, this is because they only count those who are declared dead on-scene: if they are still working on the victim at the time the helicopter takes them out, they are not classified as a fatality.LOL!

I would love to, but as I know I cannot control myself (and would therefore strive to kill the corners and go for lap times) it would be better for me to do this in a few years, with a better performing car, and more (read : some) disposable income.

[Aardvark]

Ok, couple of things: you definately don't need a fast car. Hell, its probably better not to have a fast car, as its much harder to stack it.

You also will not be attacking the corners for a good while. Its essentially like driving 15 miles of country road, so it will not be familiar, and it will take a LOT of time to gain familiarity.

In fact I'd say that Afty's A3 and JeRkY's Bora are actually fairly decent cars for a first trip. Fairly decent power, fairly decent handling, and safety guff like ABS.

[andyf]

I suspect spare sets of brake pads would be in order. And watch how much rubber you scrub off the tyres if you start going for it!

I'm assuming they have a petrol station on site or very nearby.

I won't be attempting this unless the car has an oil cooler minimum as its a fair bit more stress than on the road. Unless of course you just want to semi-trundle around :)

[Aardvark]

You can quite happily drive like you would on a normal road. Hell, buses go round the bloody track, its not like its a racetrack exactly :)

[ShadowMan]

Might be interested.

Dont think my A4 would go round that quick but would be a good road trip to get there and i can always take lots of pics of others going round.

Altho I am currently looking into the possibility of getting an elise as a second car next year if finances work out good. If it happens I could take both using a trailer...

Ohh the possibilities.

[Mouse_On_Mars]

Maybe, if my car has had its final mods done by then and I have enough money left over to actually go.

[ant]

yes deffo uo for that, hopefully be pusing bout 350 brake soon so can keep up quite well, might try and do it all sideways instead tho :)

they have shell v-power over there which is 100 octane :) should keep the motor runnign happy

[Afty]

Bear in mind there's a crapload of corners, and almost none have any runoff whatsoever.

One small mistake somewhere in the 13km * number of circuits will probably mean your car is a write-off. Oh, and most insurance policies will not cover you - read the policy and check if you need to take out specialist cover.

Check your brakes, your tires, your oil ETC. ETC. in the morning too ;)

[ant]

nothing new. my car usually gets ragged around on track alot and am used it it getting all out of shape :)

[Bonkers]

something to whet your appetites ;)
http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/data/thumbnails/29.jpg
VIDEO (http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/getitem/121/1/aae.wmv)

[andyf]

cor it's trying to save that as a 14mb html file :D


it's indecent how light the rear is on that thing

[ant]

gonna give the 200 a good spanking then andy ?

[andyf]

Originally posted by ant
gonna give the 200 a good spanking then andy ?


if i haven't sold it and got something with a straight six, sure :D

[ant]

something straight 6 and jap maybe ?

[andyf]

Originally posted by ant
something straight 6 and jap maybe ?

and with a pair of turbo's perhaps...

[ant]

nissan by any chance :)

[Aardvark]

Originally posted by afty
Oh, and most insurance policies will not cover you - read the policy and check if you need to take out specialist cover.

Most, in fact, will. The Ring is classified as a derestricted toll road, hence as long as your insurance covers driving in Europe, you're covered.

[Aardvark]

Originally posted by afty
One small mistake somewhere in the 13km

13km? Double that for starters :) I really would like to stress that you chaps in powerful cars really won't be likely to really get near their limits, the first 10 laps are very much a 'remember which corner goes where' experience. The next 20 are 'ok lets try out some lines', and after about 50 in total you'll start to have actual confidence. That'll be about 4 weekends worth, if you really pushed it :)

[Mingtea]

I'll take the ferrari out for a spin.

[Aerodynamic]

are motorbikes allowed?

edit: nm, watched the vid and saw a few bikes. Should be fun with my new ducati monster ;D

[Aardvark]

A word on motorbikes: be warned that I will not come round there and scrape your remains off the tarmac afterwards. When I say its not safe in cars, I'd call it downright dangerous on a bike. Your call, however.

[Aardvark]

Ok, more research leads me to think 'oo hire car time' :)

From Avis, you can get the following for £125 for 3 days, unlimited mileage:

Example vehicle: Audi A4 Avant

* Transmission type: manual
* Air conditioning
* Drive type: Rear-Wheel
* Number of doors: 4
* Number of passengers: 5
* Minimum Age: 21
* Driving experience 1
* Number of credit cards: 1
* Power: 115 PS
* Cylinders: 4
* Displacement: 1,9
* Top speed: 223 km/h

For collection from Koln-Bonn airport, so add in the air fare and its probably going to cost about the same as driving there, you don't knacker your own car on the Ring, and you don't have to drive through Belgium.

The main drawback is the excess payable on any damage (€750), but we're not going to crash, ARE WE?

An extra 30 quid gets you an E class Merc or equivalent. Hmm :) Also, for €15 per day you can specify an additional driver (plus €12 per day young driver fee if under 25), so you can split it between 2 people if you like.

Finally, it appears a Mr J Clarkson was in the Nurburg area a fortnight ago. Rumour has it that the piece filmed there will be screened on October 24th in the first ep of the new series of Top Gear. Perfect timing for me to get people interesting in this little trip, I feel :)

[Aardvark]

It gets better. Flying from Stansted to Koln-Bonn with Germanwings (http://www.germanwings.com) will cost you 37 quid return. So thats 125 quid for a hire car, 40 quid flight, sleep in the car: even with petrol and lap prices, its going to be under 300 quid for the weekend. Bargain, I feel :)

[Afty]

Check the small print for exceptions though - might not be allowed to do that - also at 115PS that won't really be a fun car to drive, it's a bit grandpa.

Might be better to go bigger, or get a smaller car that'll haul ass a bit better. I know, cos that car is almost identical to mine (cept for the extra door and the fact it's a saloon) and it's a nice car, but not exactly meaty for a racing track...
On the upside the cornering/stability protection/ABS system are second to none in the price range and you'll be less likely to lose it around a corner than in a French or American car...

[ant]

hmm 115 is a bit weedy tho after driving a 300 brake turbod motor every day most thigs seem slow :)

i would still drive there and run my car tho.

[JeRkY]

the avant is the audi estate range not a saloon is it not?

[Afty]

Ah yes, I didn't notice the word Avant. Won't handle nearly aswell as an A3 would, far too much backend. But Im guessing there *are* some rental cars that would zip around nicely...?

[Mingtea]

you can get "special" rental cars.

[ant]

bmw m3 :) would do the job

[Elbonio]

Can I bring my Fiesta?

[andyf]

Originally posted by Elbonio
Can I bring my Fiesta?

Sure. You might wanna take it out of your pocket when you get in someone's car for a driven lap, it might chaff against your legs or something.

[Aardvark]

What small print afty? I read the actual rental site, the T&C, no exclusions. Some companies exclude the Ring, but then I'm not mentioning them am I?

115PS, yes well its not 300. But then this is a road you've never driven before in your life, with a bunch of nutters also with no experience up to people who've got lap counts in the thousands. I don't think a powerful car is exactly what you need at this point :)

I'm well aware the Avant is the estate (as well as the fact there's a bloody great picture of the car on the webby), I merely call it extra sleeping space :) As afty says, its based on the same platform as the A3, only it's an estate.

It won't necessarily be the A4 anyway, its just that class, but you can pretty much bank on it being a German car. Just pray you don't get a Vectra...

As I say, you can upgrade a car class to get a Merc E class or equivalent for an extra 30 quid. That's the best you'll get with Avis, although other car rental companies are of course available, this was just an example of a fairly good car choice for a first bash at the Ring.

And by all means bring your own cars, this is just an option for the people who are interested but don't want to use their own car for whatever reason (its ****e, it'll knacker it, driving across Belgium...).

[Aardvark]

Ok, its operation 'tempt BFC' time. So pray look at this page, (http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/trip_reports/trip25/index.html) about three quarters of the way down. Note the opulence on display :D

[andyf]

Awesome. Beats the idea of renting a 'car' into the ground with a big fat mallet :)

Wonder how much it cost them ?

[Aardvark]

Buggered if I know andy :)

I'm now looking into a preliminary trip n Feb/March sort of time, using rental car hax. Prime objective is to learn where the bloody track goes, and I figure if its pissing down that will mean I a) drive slower anyway and b) will have less random nuggets around than if the weather was good :)

[ant]

ill take the turbo taxi if its rebuilt by then

[Dan]

I'd like to go ... as a passenger :)


Don't think my driving skills would be up to it by then! :P

[Tyler]

Work permitting, I'll be up for this.

For those that haven't done any track driving before and have a little spare cash, I strongly advise you to get some tuition to teach you the basics beforehand (braking points, clipping points, throttle control, mid-corner balance etc). Nürburgring is a demanding track, so having that preparation under your belt will not only make you a better, safer driver but a faster one too.

The major UK tracks like Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Castle Combe, Thruxton and Oulton Park all offer courses at reasonable prices.

[Aardvark]

Originally posted by Tyler
For those that haven't done any track driving before and have a little spare cash, I strongly advise you to get some tuition to teach you the basics beforehand (braking points, clipping points, throttle control, mid-corner balance etc). Nürburgring is a demanding track, so having that preparation under your belt will not only make you a better, safer driver but a faster one too.

Hmm, its hard to say whether thats a good idea. No British track will really give you a similar experience to the Nurburgring, in terms of the number of blind crests, mid corner bumps and sharp cambers you'll have to deal with (well, except maybe Knockhill (Duffus Dip = similar to Pflanzgarten. Kind of.) and Cadwell Park, on a small scale).

Most track days WILL help you with corner lines, smooth driving etc. However this would be on a track with no more than a dozen or so corners, all of which are marble smooth. For the Ring, you'll have to learn 7 times the number of corners, many of which have evil little bumps and cambers, including several that you just can't bloody see until you're on top of them (Adenauer Forst goes LEFT there! :D).

Oh and for anyone getting clever ideas: no, cars do not go round corners like they do in PGR2 :rolleyes:

[Tyler]

Originally posted by Aardvark
Hmm, its hard to say whether thats a good idea. No British track will really give you a similar experience to the Nurburgring, in terms of the number of blind crests, mid corner bumps and sharp cambers you'll have to deal with (well, except maybe Knockhill (Duffus Dip = similar to Pflanzgarten. Kind of.) and Cadwell Park, on a small scale).

Most track days WILL help you with corner lines, smooth driving etc. However this would be on a track with no more than a dozen or so corners, all of which are marble smooth. For the Ring, you'll have to learn 7 times the number of corners, many of which have evil little bumps and cambers, including several that you just can't bloody see until you're on top of them (Adenauer Forst goes LEFT there! :D).

Oh and for anyone getting clever ideas: no, cars do not go round corners like they do in PGR2 :rolleyes:

Granted, there is no UK track that can replicate the Nurburgring experience entirely - but that's not my point. I'm talking about people understanding the fundamentals of fast track driving so they can push the car without exceeding their (and the car's) performance envelope and not endangering themselves or others. Get that under their belts and they can apply those concepts to any track - Nurburgring included. I've come across so many idiots (more so now I've started instructing) who drive performance cars quickly on public roads, think they're good drivers and then spin off at the first hairpin because they're not listening to the instructor.

And let's face it, you're not going there to toddle around at 40mph, enjoying the view. As we've both said, Nurburgring is a demanding track - I'm just recommending that people prepare themselves adequately for it.

If anyone's interested, I'll look into getting a decent group rate for a day's tuition at one of the tracks - probably Silverstone. No promises but I'll see what I can do.

[strudles]

Hi, thought i would chip in as i replied on another thread ardy started about this on a differernt board.

I went to nurby about 4 years ago in a peugeot 405, and always vowed to come back in a more appropriate car but never got around to it, so I would def want to have a go again.

Unfortunatly i soldmy Jag xjs and 18ft trailor last year and my road cars probably going this winter (terrible karting habbit i cant kick).

But im sure i'll get something sorted by next summer :)

-
struds

[Aardvark]

Oh hello there mr struds :)

Didn't know you'd been before, looks like you'll be one of the ones that knows the track a bit and wanting to push a wee bit harder. Although I guess knowing where the corners go form GPL would help a bit as well :D

[Aardvark]

Further investigation reveals that Europcar (http://www.europcar.co.uk) do Smart Roadsters for €220 for 3 days. And if you're over 27, they also do Audi TTs and BMW Z4s... :D

[Aardvark]

Further further investigation reveals that Avis do Porsches. A 911 will be yours for 3 days for the princely sum of €639 (thats about 400 quid on the dot, currency fans!).

I hate to say it, but I'm so so tempted :D

Also, a bloke on the mailing list runs this place (http://www.slidersguesthouse.com) which at €25 per night looks quite spiffy indeed :)

[andyf]

Originally posted by Aardvark
Further further investigation reveals that Avis do Porsches. A 911 will be yours for 3 days for the princely sum of €639 (thats about 400 quid on the dot, currency fans!).

I hate to say it, but I'm so so tempted :D

Also, a bloke on the mailing list runs this place (http://www.slidersguesthouse.com) which at €25 per night looks quite spiffy indeed :)


you're tempted?!? 911's for £400! GO GO GO

[JediBitch]

if anyone wants a navigator im up for going! ive always wanted to go round the nurburgring!

[andyf]

Cor, fresh meat for the grinder!

We need to find that Sabine woman who was on Top Gear. Looks a right laugh.

[Aardvark]

I know where the bar she works at is. Its all in hand Andy, all in hand :)

So, any more takers now that TG have done a grand job of advertising it for me? :D

[Groodles]

As much as I really fancy letting my car eat up that circuit, I really don't fancy putting it into the side of a mountain with a sharp pointy rock type surface to tear up the metalwork and kill me in the process.

Can I recommend a day out at an EasyTrack (http://www.easytrack.co.uk) event first so people will at least be able to hold a racing line before tackling something quite seriously ADVANCED as the Nurburgring.....

[her0n]

they had it on top gear last night... saying it's claimed 200 lives :o
Clarkson did it in 9min 59sec :)

[Aardvark]

So we can promote this trip above the ski trip as 'outing most likely to get community members killed' then :)

I'm reluctant to get people to do a track day or any track driving course beforehand, as it has a good chance of making them think they know what they're doing. The absolute, ABSOLUTE safest way to approach the Nurburgring is with a knowledge that you don't know how to handle it. If you *think* you do, thats when you get overconfident and it bites, its really not like any other track in that respect.

Anyway, on a lighter note, I got this today:

>> Ringers Nation
>
>> Population: Growing
>> Capital: Nürburg
>> Area: 20.8 x pi x pi
>> Language: Broken English
>> Currency: Beer
>> Political system: Ruled by consensus
>> Religion: Mixed, unified by worship of gods like Bellof, Dähne
>> and Röhrl.
>> Economy: Continuously on a slope towards total disaster.
> Main imports: Petrol, tyres, brakes
> Main exports: Tall tales, adrenalin
> Constitution: Usually a little delicate on Sunday mornings
> Taxation system: Car chassis' and armco both heavily taxed

:D

[Groodles]

Originally posted by Aardvark
I'm reluctant to get people to do a track day or any track driving course beforehand, as it has a good chance of making them think they know what they're doing. The absolute, ABSOLUTE safest way to approach the Nurburgring is with a knowledge that you don't know how to handle it. If you *think* you do, thats when you get overconfident and it bites, its really not like any other track in that respect.

To be perfectly honest, I cannot disagree more with that statement.

The whole point in going to an organised track day is to show you what you DON'T know about driving on a race track as they don't let you drive by yourself unless you can show you at least know the basics.

On a proper track, the first time you experience REAL understeer, you slide off onto the gravel. On the 'ring, it's into a moutainside.

It's your choice obviously, but as a comparision would you really attempt a solo, free fall parachute jump WITHOUT doing at least a static line or a tandem jump first?

[ant]

driving 290 brake turbod rear wheel drive jap spots car soon teaches alot, i have done alot of track time since i have owned it and also enter into drift competitions, i am used to a bit of oversteer :) have driven the full gp silverstone ciruit many times now.

allways wantet to go to the Nurburgring in my car which is more than capable of keeping up with most things.

[no friends]

149 corners, 14km, good time - 10mins

[Aardvark]

No. 73 corners, 21km, and a good time is under 8 minutes.

[Towneh]

I suppose I could take my Golf GTI 2.0 115PS car along, and if it breaks down, hey its a VW and we're in Germany...