scan.co.uk [Archive] - Multiplay UK Forums

Afty

19th July 2004, 11:20

Originally posted by winbar
around 3000 errors on the ram i got from them on memtest, lets get prepared for small claims court battle.

Send it back citing the Distance Selling Regulations (2000) - if you do this (notify them before you send, they may want you to use an RMA number, they have NO legal right to refuse the return) they are obliged to refund the goods at full price AFAIK - and you are NOT required to give them a reason why you are returning it (though in this case it may be worth indicating that while the goods were not electrically non-functioning, they were not to the standard you expected for such a product, due to failing software tests).
You must do this within SEVEN days of receiving the goods afaik - you can use this law to return goods bought on the phone or internet regardless of whether they work or not. It's your right as a consumer to have a 7 day cooling off period after receiving ANY goods ordered "over distance" - see the regs for exceptions (software thats been opened, shares in companies, betting wagers etc.)

Regs Here : http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm
Guide Here : http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/guide/distsell.htm

I'm not certain, but I think you will have to swallow the cost of the postage for returning the item - send it special delivery and it will only cost a couple of quid.

You could go the normal RMA route, ask for replacement etc. but this just takes forever and is often alot more work than simply paying postage and getting your money back.

Afty

19th July 2004, 11:22

BTW for all the people in this thread mentioning prior problems with retailers, *DONT* bother going through the RMA/return/test procedure with a company you don't trust... simply return the item under the DSR(2000) and swallow the postage charges, then order the product from elsewhere.

If you try to go through the normal channels your 7 day "grace" period will expire before they test the product and you will then be unable to return it using the regs... Stand up for your rights as a consumer :)

TE-Hellfire

19th July 2004, 11:47

I am unsure why it is we must swallow these postage costs upon returning items.

Surely, the error was made by themselves and the cost of postage is entirely their responsibility for supplying faulty goods in the first place.

I'd be willing to battle that one in the courts because I know I'm bloody well right and that the argument is entirely logical.

Unless anybody has a suggestion as to why we must pay for other's postage?

Nes

19th July 2004, 11:55

Good companies will actually reimburse you this money. When i asked ebuyer about the matter they just asked for me to send the receipts that i got when sending the packages to them and they gave me a cheque for the amount.

Afty

19th July 2004, 12:08

Originally posted by TE-Hellfire
Unless anybody has a suggestion as to why we must pay for other's postage? My post was about returning goods under the DSR(2000) regs, not returning faulty goods.

When you return faulty goods, the retailer should also re-imburse your postage costs - but of course you have to ask ;)

RocketKnight

19th July 2004, 12:57

Originally posted by afty
BTW for all the people in this thread mentioning prior problems with retailers, *DONT* bother going through the RMA/return/test procedure with a company you don't trust... simply return the item under the DSR(2000) and swallow the postage charges, then order the product from elsewhere.

If you try to go through the normal channels your 7 day "grace" period will expire before they test the product and you will then be unable to return it using the regs... Stand up for your rights as a consumer :)
Couldn't agree more on that point. The only RMA service I really trust is Ebuyer, but then I use a business account so for all I know I'm getting special service in comparison with home customers.

Nothing worse than being sent back the faulty product with a letter that states "we can't find anything wrong with it" when you KNOW that they've only done that so its gone out beyond the 7 day cut off point. Buying from Jungle, boy did I learn my lesson. They had some good prices every now and again, but tangling with them over the phone for 3 months about faulty products was hell. I think that phones was a large part of the problem, you could tell them what they were doing was wrong but the idiot on the end of the phone isn't required to know trading laws, he's required to know how to operate a keyboard.

And always, ALWAYS keep records of dealing with these people. That includes peoples full names, dates, times, (so you can check logs with your phone company if it gets as bad as it did with me and Jungle), etc. And when they tell you they're going to take a big step in the right direction, have them fax written confirmation right there and then. Otherwise, theres no record they did anything and they'll try and deny they spoke to you.

And it really, REALLY winds me up when:

Me: "OK, and may I take your name please."
Bob: "Certainly, Bob."
Me: "And your surname?"
Bob: "..."
Bob: "..."
Bob: "..."
Bob: "Smith. Bob Smith."

Warning bells start ringing in that situation. No one should hesitate to give you there name unless they're doing something they shouldn't be, whether its screwing you over or just being lazy about procedures in order to get off their shift early.

Afty

19th July 2004, 13:18

Originally posted by RocketKnight
Warning bells start ringing in that situation. No one should hesitate to give you there name unless they're doing something they shouldn't be Nah - every call center/sales line rep should be using a false name for safety reasons - but their bosses are obliged to know who is using what name to track calls - they rarely bother "having" a surname for their false identities though.

This became good practice in call centres after a few murders in America by disgruntled customers.

RocketKnight

19th July 2004, 13:39

Originally posted by afty
This became good practice in call centres after a few murders in America by disgruntled customers.
I think its sad that didn't shock me.

TimmyNoShoes

19th July 2004, 13:49

Originally posted by afty
Nah - every call center/sales line rep should be using a false name for safety reasons - but their bosses are obliged to know who is using what name to track calls - they rarely bother "having" a surname for their false identities though.

This became good practice in call centres after a few murders in America by disgruntled customers.

When i worked in a call centre we werent obliged to tell them our first name but we could if we wanted to, but surnames were a no go.

Also can someone please run throught the logistics of "returning goods under the DSR(2000) regs" how would you go about it?
Im just a bit dense is all :)

Afty

19th July 2004, 14:12

Tell them you're returning the goods under the regulations.

Return the goods (in a "signed-for" shipment).

They have to refund you.

Elbonio

19th July 2004, 14:29

and remember that you dont have to accept a credit note

some companies will try and fob you off with one

chluke

19th July 2004, 14:38

I got a mobile phone from o2 with a contract, phone turned up but no sim. Managed to get though to them and they said they would send another. Two arrived neiether works. Got in touch with o2 again asked for a refund of 23.99 for my first months contract as i could not use it and also as a gestur of good will some money to cover the cost of the 50p per minute phone calls. Yes sir no problem sir, phone should work fine in 24 hrs sir. It never worked, oh and i've still not got a refund. Another call same story. Now i've got this phone with 3 sim card that won't work, i've now stopped my direct debit and I intend to quote the distance selling rules as I've not had my order completed ie one phone that works. As far as I can work out the 7 day cooling off period starts after the order has been completed.... could I apply this logic to the above situation.

Afty

19th July 2004, 14:59

Im not sure where it leaves you when the goods have been delivered, but fail to work and you don't say something within seven days.

Can't hurt to try though, and I'd like to hear how you do.

chluke

19th July 2004, 16:18

The problem is i've tried telling them within 7 days of the phone arriving but th phone line is constantly engaged.

TE-Hellfire

19th July 2004, 16:34

Well it might also be under guarantee or warranty anyway, always worth a try.

Does anybody ever get any kind of decent service these days? My brother recently got a Panasonic car stereo and a Sony Minidisc, both are faulty, both companies offer pathetic customer services.

I think it's time that there should be far more legal power to be used against these companies as they clearly seem to be using this imbalance to their advantage and people who are ignorant to their own legal abilities are being conned.

Cheez

19th July 2004, 16:55

I had a great one with scan. Ordered a webcam and some RAM from scan. Change my mind and cancel the webcam. 2 days later RAM arrives, but I look on the invoice and they have charged for both the RAM and the webcam (Webcam was £50). I phoned them up, "we show you cancelled it and as far as our records show we only charged you for the RAM" I faxed them both a bank statement and the invoice. They kept giving answers like "Oh it should have gone through by now, ill just check it again" or "Hmm. I'm not sure what's happening there, I'll just put you on hold..." *beep* (yes the bastards hung up on me). I never did get the £50 back. I just put it down to experiance and warn everyone who even thinks about it away from ordering from them. I must have cost them a lot more than £50 worth of lost business. So I hope they are happy. :)

Afty

19th July 2004, 17:31

Chris, in those situations, call up your bank and contest the payment - the WHOLE thing. Then when Scan contact you to ask why you didn't pay for any of it, offer to pay for the RAM only - you may even get out of the shipping charges ;)

Afty

19th July 2004, 17:33

Originally posted by TE-Hellfire
Does anybody ever get any kind of decent service these days? No, but that's primarily because people price-match too much, instead of sticking with tried and trusted.

We, as the consumers, have demanded cheaper prices and we are not concerned about customer service - so the market provides us lower prices with poor customer services.

Free markets truly are a wonderful thing, sadly they require the market itself to be "educated"...

Cheez

19th July 2004, 17:37

I was young at the time and my parents were very dubious about the whole "buying things online" thing. I didn't want to tell them and was afraid that it would get back to them if i had dealings with the bank over it. Now I'd bitch whine and moan to all and saundry about it.

Now I do as you say and only use tried and tested. Ebuyer for low price stuff as they are generally cheaper, and I've had good experiances with their customer support. And OcUK for more expensive stuff for the same reasons.

Elbonio

19th July 2004, 18:58

Originally posted by afty
Im not sure where it leaves you when the goods have been delivered, but fail to work and you don't say something within seven days.

Can't hurt to try though, and I'd like to hear how you do.

same rules as for anything: non-merchantable quality = right to at least swap it

after a certain amount of time though the retailer will point you in vthe direction of the manufacturer

not sure if you have the right to a refund

Afty

19th July 2004, 20:08

Originally posted by Elbonio
same rules as for anything: non-merchantable quality = right to at least swap it Well yes, but that's under a diff law.

The original point was, you have seven days from delivery to apply for a refund and return the goods under the Distance Selling Regulations (2000) - but we *DONT* know if this seven day grace period commences upon delivery of unsatosfactory goods, or upon final delivery of replacement goods.

It's a very grey area, as the intent of the Regs is to allow people to "cool off" and decide whether they want the item once they have received it, it's not intended to have anything to do with faulty goods, but one could argue that the consumer is unable to evaluate the goods until the goods have been supplied in a merchantable state... hard to call with the way the Regs are worded (or what I have read of them).

KingDaveRa

19th July 2004, 20:48

Things to remember when being shafted by a seller:

1. Quote random bits of consumer law you heard about on Watchdog, but don't actually understand.

2. Bitch about the cost and how you expected more.

3. If you are visiting the seller personally, pace up and down repeatedly.

4. Raise your voice slightly, but not to the point of shouting.

5. Huff repeatedly.

6. Make unreasonable demands i.e. gold plating on the new one, gilded packaging.

6. Mention some form of compensation. Expect much, much more than is reasonable.

Above all, do NOT forget to exclaim "I know my rights!"

Anybody who has worked in an industry selling to morons who don't understand what they are buying (I sold computer stuff for some time), will understand this.

Back on track slightly, if you bought it with a credit card, go bitch at them if all else fails. Its their problem as much as the people you bought it from.

Noodleman

19th July 2004, 20:52

HAHAHHAAHH!!!

SCAN ARE EVIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLL EVIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

RK[CLL]

19th July 2004, 21:54

ah, he found it!!

JeRkY

19th July 2004, 22:40

clearly someone should make a pocket sized version of Afty, the customers friend.

Elbonio

19th July 2004, 22:50

Originally posted by KingDaveRa

Back on track slightly, if you bought it with a credit card, go bitch at them if all else fails. Its their problem as much as the people you bought it from.

You: and you just sat there and LET me buy this hunk of crap???

Visa: erm... yeah

You: Well you can just give me a refund can't you...

Visa: well i dunno....

You: Come on.. i thought you were supposed to be my flexible friend...

Visa: oh.. go on then!

You: I love you.

Visa: We love you too.

winbar

20th July 2004, 09:54

Update:

After 15mins in a queue i spoke to a very patronising returns chap, anyway without question they agreed to refund it regardless of the fault (as afty said within 7 days etc).

Question is.... will they do it, we shall see!

RocketKnight

20th July 2004, 10:40

Ooh, something else good about Ebuyer's RMA service, if you send the item back via special delivery and include a receipt, they refund you the full postage cost so the whole return process doesn't cost you a penny.

Woo yay Ebuyer! :)

Optimus

20th July 2004, 12:05

Originally posted by JeRkY
clearly someone should make a pocket sized version of Afty, the customers friend. can you condense something that big? :)

Freelance

20th July 2004, 12:19

Originally posted by Optimus
can you condense something that big? :) "Don't Panic"

Noodleman

20th July 2004, 20:04

they will be complete MOFOS

they wont refund it till the last moment they can, they keep your cash as long as possible for the maximum interest they can earn on it.

Originally posted by winbar
Update:

After 15mins in a queue i spoke to a very patronising returns chap, anyway without question they agreed to refund it regardless of the fault (as afty said within 7 days etc).

Question is.... will they do it, we shall see!

Elbonio

20th July 2004, 20:06

hey noodleman, i heard they also strangle koala bears

the fiends!

KingDaveRa

20th July 2004, 20:49

The evil SOBs!

All businesses are out to get us.

Optimus

20th July 2004, 21:28

tin-foil hat time!

winbar

20th July 2004, 22:20

Further update:

when i tested the ram with memtest, i found over 3000 errors. Strangely now scan have tested it, its all clear. Shocking!

KingDaveRa

21st July 2004, 11:32

Probably your PC then.

I had 2x 256mb PC400 Crucial sticks in my PC working fine on an overclock. I later added two identical sticks, and memtest threw up hundreds of errors. Removed the overclock and it was fine. I'm going to try clocking back up soon.

Also, remember Scan don't make the memory, they just buy it and resell the stuff, so you can't blame them directly for the memory. They just have to honour your warranty.

winbar

29th July 2004, 15:27

they seem to have fobbed me off with a credit note... do i have the grounds to refuse this?

Zenith

29th July 2004, 16:22

Yes.
You have the statutory right to be refunded in the same way you paid for your goods.
If you paid cash, you can demand the refund in cash.
If you paid by credit card, you can demand the payment back onto it.

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0043-1011.txt has this to say on the subject...We don't give refunds at all - you must accept a credit note.

Again, it depends on why you want to return the goods. If you have changed your mind, the shop doesn't have to do anything. But if the goods are faulty, incorrectly described or not fit for their normal purpose, you are entitled to your money back (provided you act quickly), and you certainly don't have to take a credit note. If you do accept a credit note in these circumstances, watch out, as there may be restrictions on its use.

Noodleman

29th July 2004, 17:57

Did try to warn peeps about this kind of thing

Originally posted by winbar
Further update:

when i tested the ram with memtest, i found over 3000 errors. Strangely now scan have tested it, its all clear. Shocking! :p:

winbar

31st July 2004, 12:47

Credit note ?????? was issued on friday... however as you dont have an account with us for us to credit this against, our accounts team with take this to mean "refund X amount back to the credit card".

Please bear in mind that this can sometimes take a few days, as banks seem to keep hold of money from annother bank for 3 working days, before putting it into your account.

????
Scan Computers

RK[CLL]

31st July 2004, 13:13

at least its sorted now

Buffy

31st July 2004, 20:58

Thanks for the heads up there.
I would suggest that we compile the info and hit there where it hurts, on a medium where every one will see TV.
Send it into the watchdog team and have that scary ginger woman attack them.

Freelance

31st July 2004, 21:51

people may find this (http://users.hexus.net/companies_list.php) useful in deciding which companies to deal with in future.

Noodleman

1st August 2004, 12:45

sugest you check google, there are MANY MANY people who are saying the same thing about how crap they are.

Optimus

1st August 2004, 13:04

Originally posted by Noodleman
sugest you check google, there are MANY MANY people who are saying the same thing about how crap they are. yeah, but theres just as many people who slag off Ebuyer, Overclockers and the rest... frankly, its a minefield about who to buy from and whether you will be 'one of the unlucky ones'...

ezt

3rd August 2004, 21:32

You seem a good person to ask this to afty:

Where does the distance selling regulations leave you in regard to opening the product and using it? Can you use DSR as a 'trial service' to see if goods are any good, and then just return them as unfit for purpose after 5 days? That seems almost as silly as saying that people aren't allowed to open the product at all. The guide seems a bit unclear but neither is particularly fair.

Megz

3rd August 2004, 21:50

think u typo'd, isnt it www.scaM.co.uk?
Deary me they're ****er's. They dont understand customer service, ive had a mare every time ive ordered with them (a few times, i didnt learn).
Never had a problem with dabs, had a slight one with overclockers but when i rang up the second time it was sorted there and then and was a human error by someone else. Ordered regularly from these two and intend to carry on.

Afty

4th August 2004, 08:49

Originally posted by ezt
Can you use DSR as a 'trial service' to see if goods are any good, and then just return them as unfit for purpose after 5 days? It would appear so, but Im not entirely sure. Havent got time to trawl the regs at the moment...

Qdos

6th August 2004, 15:17

I agree that this can be a very subjective topic - personally I tend to compare prices and go with the cheapest offer (including postage- that can sometimes be a killer charge). However, I always stick to companies that I have heard of or have been around awhile.

Personally speaking, Ebuyer has been top-notch. i recently did a check- in the last 2 years, I've spent over £2000 with them *gulp* and only ever had one faulty item, which was replaced pretty damn quickly.

I also used to use Overclockers, until a large order, which was all in stock at the time of ordering, took over two weeks to arrive. It took several emails to get any response from them, and I'm still waiting to hear back from them as to any recompense for the wait (I did pay a hefty premium for next day delivery) I will now no longer use them.

I think all you can do is take a chance on using a company and make your mind up. I know plenty of people slag off Ebuyer, but for me they are fantastic, and will be getting the majority of the next £2000 i spend on PC stuff :D (I do realise that in a hugely ironic twist, I will now get nothing but ****e service from Ebuyer and will be cursing their name by the end of the month)