What a crock of ****!

[the_moog]

My FarCry arrived from Play this morning... but I can run the bastard thing. It installed ok but keeps giving me a "CD/DVD emulation software has been detected. Please disable all CD/DVD emulation software and restart game."

But I don't use any emulation software!!!

Browsing their forums it seems a lot of people are having very similar problems (and a lot of people can't even install from the DVD). Apparently, it is detecting that you have CloneCD installed and not letting you run. I've got CloneCD and no bastard from UBI is going to tell me what I can and can't run on my PC... so I'll be returning this POS forthwith!

Absolutely ****ing appalled that CD protection has reached these ridiculous heights!

[Smittins]

If you have any software like clonecd, clone dvd, alchol 110% installed, it wont run

bastards

[Elye]

This may be the "new" way of combatting warez, by making programs scan computers for software they dont like ...

Personally Operation Flashpoint did it best with FADE, which made the game unplayable after a week of downloading and installing ...

[Lucifa]

I have Alcohol 120%/daemon tools installed, works fine.

FADE? Hmm rings a bell, if I remember correctly it was just a scare story :)


Lucifa

[zhardoum]

I was playing it last night, its a lot lot better since the 1.1 patch came out, fps has shot up, the aircraft carrier at the first stages lagged out almost inside the ship. Tried it again after 1.1 patchg and its fairly smooth now. However on internet play it suffers from unplayable lag, even with a ping of 80. But the one player game is quite intense at parts, if not a little tough at places :)


I do however have clone CD installed on my pc, and I am using a legal copy of Faracy.

But i will soon be hunting for the no CD Patch, and if it refuses to work when I installed DVD Copy then i will also be returning it.

I understand where the software companies are coming from on this, but I too am of the camp that says, its my pc, ill run what I want on it, I have a legitimate use for Clone DVD, and for Clone CD, so what gives UBI Soft the right to say I cant use it.

Lets put it this way, if the law says it is ok to buy, use and install Clone Cd-DVD-alchohol 120% etc, who are UBI soft to say the courts are wrong.

No need to swear, ill simply return the cd in its case back to the store I purchased it from, as well as at the same time emailing UBI soft with a note explaining why I object and the serial number that came with the cds as proof of purchase.

I simply feel they are going to far, but ill see what happends when i install alchohol and DVD Copy today.

[Freelance]

in an ideal world no two bits of software should conflict and affect each other. when a company goes out and deliberately makes their program A kick up a fuss when program B is installed is just not playing nice. when i install a game, it should function as a game and respect the fact that it's running on someone's machine that they have set up the way they want (hence personal computer). it's kind of like buying a sports car that won't run until you sell your 4x4

[zhardoum]

Or more topically.

Like Microsoft purposely changing their OS so competitors products wouldn´t work.

Something they have been fined and prosecuted for recently.

I think this tactic of disabling one program when it detects another is not a far-cry (Doah, what a bad pun) away, and I suppose it wouldnt be a big stretch to accuse the games companies of being like Microsoft.

[Optimus]

this is the same problem as UT2004... the developers dont know that you are running a legit copy, so simply try and bar the programs that circumvent the copy protection...

if you are running Daemon Tools, then you simply turn off the Copy Protection Emulation (right click on the icon -> Emulation -> All options OFF) and the copy protection will ignore it...

same for other virtual drive tools, altho I dunno how to do them...

[Freelance]

as i see it, any program is a guest on your system and should behave itself. it shouldn't get in a strop because program b might do something that program a wouldn't like. it would be nice if all gamers wouldn't invite stroppy programs onto their system, but when it's a A-class game such as farcry we just put up with it

[afty]

Originally posted by zhardoum
Like Microsoft purposely changing their OS so competitors products wouldn´t work.
Something they have been fined and prosecuted for recently.
Nah, they got fined for bundling and tying.

While they have deliberately done what you mentioned, no-one has called them on it in a court of law, and besides unless you are a monopoly it's not illegal either - Far Cry most certainly isn't a monopoly, so it's their choice - having said that it's a STUPID choice and is driving people to warez in droves. I know someone who is discussing this at the moment with someone fairly senior at Ubi, and they are at least receptive to the idea.

[Joolz]

Lets solve this hissy fit. I had the same problem. After debugging what was going on behind the scenes... certain writing software is banned. Namely... CloneCD is NOT allowed to be installed, otherwise farcry won't load.

[Bowser]

once again i'll point you all towards http://www.virtualcd-online.com I have a clone using this and it works fine. No No cd patch needed! the program gets round the copy protection on the disc so it pretends that it is a real cd.

zhardoum: you should look into it cause it works very well from a server holding all the cd images over a network to remote pc's.

[F|E|S|T|A]

I don't have this problem simply as I don't have any copy software installed, but I did notice that there isn't even anything on the packaging about this copy protection lark which is a bit naughty imo. They should at least put a warning on the case to let people know before buying the game as music cd's do.

Of course they probably are not going to do this though as fewer people will buy it then.

[Guigsy]

well thats put me off buying that game.... not that i was going to buy it anyway. thaught the demo was a bit poor, just didnt look right. i like doing stuff like shooting barrels and them falling over and zooming miles and sniping someone. thats all good. the game just felt... plasticky and 2 polished

[Freelance]

Originally posted by Holes
Lets solve this hissy fit. I had the same problem. After debugging what was going on behind the scenes... certain writing software is banned. Namely... CloneCD is NOT allowed to be installed, otherwise farcry won't load. the thing is , should a game be able to dictate what other software you have installed. if MS banned openoffice.org or quicktime everyone would be at their throats in milliseconds, but because this is a game it's suddenly okay.

[Joolz]

I never said I agreed to it :) Just stating why the game don't work... You see, the game IS good... but I agree... What the F**K are Macrovision thinking, putting that sorta stuff into SafeDisc?

[the_moog]

Originally posted by Holes
Lets solve this hissy fit. I had the same problem. After debugging what was going on behind the scenes... certain writing software is banned. Namely... CloneCD is NOT allowed to be installed, otherwise farcry won't load.

And where the **** do UBI/Crytek get off on telling *me* what software I can have loaded onto my PC in order to be *allowed* to run their game. If I'd bought FarCry from Game it would have gone back yesterday... I just can't be arsed to send it back to Play (and I don't hold Play responsible for the release of such a hugely overzealous anti-piracy stance).

Apparently the US release does have warnings on the case about not being compatible with virtual CD software installed... I've no idea if it mentions CloneCD/DVD by name... but the UK release has nothing like that on the case.

As it stands, I've paid £25 for 5 coasters... and I loved the demo!

I for one won't be buying any future Crytek or UBI releases after this fiasco.

[the_moog]

Good news... after reading the FarCry forums today I followed a link to another forum where they reckon it is detecting Clone CD, Clone DVD and Nero, even, and refusing to run with them installed... but there is a NO CD crack (which I won't link to) which solves the problem entirely and can be used on Far Cry v1.0 and v1.1... so I can play it now.

Still very unimpressed and will be boycotting UBI/Crytek.

[Optimus]

fs, boycotting one company because of anothers oversight...

Ubisoft simply buy Safedisc to protect its software...
as Joolz pointed out, Macrovision are the ones adding this virtual drive check, and Ubi cant do nothing about it save do like they did with Raven Shield and switch to a previous version of Safedisc with a patch, which not only requires another patch to be released, but also means their software is again at risk...

anyway, what are your legitimate reasons for using virtual drives? Spread few and far between no doubt :p:

Just reading these and the UT2K4 forums and taking note of the amount of people whining because they are apparantly 'not allowed' to play the game, when simply disabling or uninstalling virtual drive emulation fixes everything...

[afty]

Originally posted by Optimus
anyway, what are your legitimate reasons for using virtual drives? Spread few and far between no doubt :p:

1] For one, so I don't have to carry a 150 CD collection around with me, or trawl through it every time I want to play a game.

2] For all those games that have now scratched CDs that I would be otherwise unable to play.

3] Because it's my PC, and if I want to run $3rd party software$, I will. Ubi are welcome to include such "copy protection" measures, but until I hear it's gone, they've lost a sale - hell I may even get the pirated version out of impatience, and if I end up playing and finishing that, it's hardly worth my 30 quid to pay for the real thing, is it?

[the_moog]

Originally posted by Optimus
anyway, what are your legitimate reasons for using virtual drives? Spread few and far between no doubt

Read the thread... it's not only detecting virtual drives (which I don't personally use at all but which I might have a perfectly legitimate reason to use, FFS!) but it detects that you have CloneCD/DVD *installed*. They can just **** right off... and is is entirely down to UBI... they publish the frigging game... if they include some whacked out copy protection software that screws over the game-buying public then, I reiterate, they can **** right off if they think I'm gambling on buying their titles again!

The most amusing thing is... with the NO CD patch, I could now install this on all my mates PCs and they could play, no problem... but me, with my pre-ordered, legit copy, couldn't play!

[Wizzo]

Just to let you know, I've brought this thread to the attention of Ubi. Hopefully they'll be able to do something about it as this sort of anal copy protection is really counter-productive. I use Alcohol 120% for all my images and it really does save soo much hassle, like when the cd in my 2nd copy of generals cracked like the first one :(

[SquireMuldoon]

just so you know... you dont have to uninstall d-tools or cloneCD... you simply need to disable their features (for now at least.

As I understand it, disabling the emulation options of d-tools works, and you need to uncheck the "Hide CDR media" option in the CloneCD Tray application.

[zhardoum]

Originally posted by Wizzo
Just to let you know, I've brought this thread to the attention of Ubi. Hopefully they'll be able to do something about it as this sort of anal copy protection is really counter-productive. I use Alcohol 120% for all my images and it really does save soo much hassle, like when the cd in my 2nd copy of generals cracked like the first one :(

Amen to that.

I have now had a few cracked CD's (BF1942 is a good one for that) and the ability to have at least the play disk backed up is a godsend.

But, there are people with legitimate needs for programs like Alchohol 120% and Clone CD, I and many others for instance can not run a legitimate Cyber cafe without one, (and without resorting to expensive CD Servers either.

I unfortunately resort to using no-cd patches, until someone tells me how to run a cyber cafe without having cds lying around I will continue to do so. The games manufacturers sell Cyber Licences, (and I have a great deal of cyber game licences) but how the games companies exect me to manage using the original cds only to play their games confounds me, I have been looking at a cd server but the cost rules it out at the moment with my limited budget, so please UBI Soft, consider the full ramifications of such a move.

Its not just l33t skewlkids who use clone cd software, there are a great many of us out there, who use this kind of program, with a legitimate use, and removing this kind of protection, will infact increase sales, not lessen them.

I end up ofen with a decision, i have €1400 to spend on 40 licences for 1 game, what do i buy? well the simple answer is one that gives me fewer issues, and that applies to an awful amount of customers, both private and public.

I understand where UBI Soft came from on this, but there are so many ways to get past the protection other than just blocking virtual drive programs, that in reality the only people who suffer when you employ this type of protection, is you the developers, as I am sure you can realise..

[bvark]

I'm using virtual drives for warez, mostly. However, I didn't warez this game.

If I did, I'd use the no-CD to play it. If I'd warez'd it, I couldn't play it online anyway, because I don't have a key, so this copy protection is effective only at preventing people who own the game from playing online.

I hope they didn't pay a lot of money for it.

[Optimus]

Originally posted by afty
3] Because it's my PC, and if I want to run $3rd party software$, I will. Ubi are welcome to include such "copy protection" measures, but until I hear it's gone, they've lost a sale - hell I may even get the pirated version out of impatience, and if I end up playing and finishing that, it's hardly worth my 30 quid to pay for the real thing, is it? Im sorry, but that is jsut ****ing stupid...

sure, its ur right to have the program installed, but when you say stuff like 'oh im gonna pirate it just to get around the copy protection' is just you being a tard...

You like the game but dont want copy protection? Buy the damn thing then source a CD crack... less effort plus pretty much a lot more legal...

Originally posted by SquireMuldoon
just so you know... you dont have to uninstall d-tools or cloneCD... you simply need to disable their features (for now at least.

As I understand it, disabling the emulation options of d-tools works, and you need to uncheck the "Hide CDR media" option in the CloneCD Tray application. If anyone has noticed, this is what ive been repeatedly saying in the 2K4 threads...

the copy protection isn't preventing you from using the game... its just there to stop you copying the thing...

[zhardoum]

Don't mean to be picky, although it may appear that I am, in my case users machines are locked down, they cant adjust settings, and they are ON by default, so for me, it makes no difference the game cant be loaded.

Thats juts my own personal viewpoint, but I am sure others will have similar reasons for not being able / wanting to disable these options.

[afty]

Originally posted by Optimus
You like the game but dont want copy protection? Buy the damn thing then source a CD crack... less effort plus pretty much a lot more legal...

the copy protection isn't preventing you from using the game... its just there to stop you copying the thing...
Actually, the copy protection *IS* preventing hundreds of people (and they're just the ones posting to forums) from even loading the game.
Sometimes they must disable software on their machine, other times they simply cannot play the game - it detects "conflicting" software that isn't even there.
Furthermore, I have a Shuttle - I would like to remove the CD ROM drive from it and add another HD - Ubis copy prevention would prevent me from doing that, or from playing Far Cry.

Finally, when companies do something this phenomenally stupid and anti-customer, it serves them right if they end up getting a buttload more pirated copies - civil disobedience (the non-violent act of committing a crime deliberately in order to protest something) is generally a good thing.

[Bowser]

Originally posted by afty
I have a Shuttle - I would like to remove the CD ROM drive from it and add another HD - Ubis copy prevention would prevent me from doing that, or from playing Far Cry.

Virtual CD is your answer Afty. I know it sounds like i'm pimping it but it is a really good peice of software for use at Lans. I don't use d/tools or alcohol 120% cause I use images all created from my own discs using Virtual Cd I never have to look for No cd cracks cause of the way this software works. Infact the only software I take to lans is Nortons Ghost incase my pc dies.

[Joolz]

I agree with Afty on this (for once :))

There's Copy Protection and anti-consumer-anal-probing style Copy Protection. Far Cry falls into the later, currently.

I'm sure its not Crytek's wrong doing (although I do feel a little bit of double standards from an outfit that used unlicensed software to develop the game).

It more falls into Ubisofts anal copy protection.

[Joolz]

Originally posted by Bowser
Virtual CD is your answer Afty. I know it sounds like i'm pimping it but it is a really good peice of software for use at Lans. I don't use d/tools or alcohol 120% cause I use images all created from my own discs using Virtual Cd I never have to look for No cd cracks cause of the way this software works. Infact the only software I take to lans is Nortons Ghost incase my pc dies.

Do you have shares in this company or something!? One does have to wonder. You've plugged it already... STOP DAMNIT.

[Bowser]

Originally posted by Holes
Do you have shares in this company or something!? One does have to wonder. You've plugged it already... STOP DAMNIT.

I just think its a good bit of software. :p:

[Optimus]

Originally posted by Holes
It more falls into Ubisofts anal copy protection. which is licensed from Macrovision, who built it to trip over virtual drives...

Ubisoft just give Crytek what they have to begin with...

all along ive not argued that the copy protection isn't wrong, just that there are (sortof) easy ways around it, and laying the blame on Crytek or even Ubisoft is silly... boycotting the game is even worse...

[the_moog]

Originally posted by SquireMuldoon
just so you know... you dont have to uninstall d-tools or cloneCD... you simply need to disable their features (for now at least.

As I understand it, disabling the emulation options of d-tools works, and you need to uncheck the "Hide CDR media" option in the CloneCD Tray application.

I don't use the CloneCD tray application... but I do have CloneCD and CloneDVD installed and it appears to be detecting that.

[the_moog]

Originally posted by Optimus
laying the blame on Crytek or even Ubisoft is silly... boycotting the game is even worse

Do you work for Ubisoft or Crytek!!!
Whose fault is it if not the publisher or the developers!

It ain't mine... I'm just one schmuk who bought it and regrets that. It has left a hugely bitter taste in my mouth which will be reflected when I don't buy their next release... I will 'vote' with my wallet!

[Optimus]

fs, I dunno why you find it so damn hard to go to GameCopyWorld and get a No CD crack... are you that lazy?

Im not saying you should have to do it, im just saying you might as well get used to it because all future games are gonna have this same protection as its what Macrovision are currently giving out to all publishers...
Far Cry has it... UT2K4 has it... KOTOR has it... Hell, I bet Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 will have it...

You gonna boycott gaming all together until developers alter their games, potentially increasing the piracy problem but on the off chance that they lose some sales from the odd few people who wont just disable their virtual drives out of principal that it violates their civil rights...

You may argue 'well im not going to pirate it' but they're looking at the bigger picture... you're just a single sale... they dont *really* care about you...

Just for the record cos you all think im an asshole for simply disagreeing with you...
1) I have an XPC
2) I dont like carrying original discs
3) I run 3 virtual drives with Daemon Tools

but I respect Crytek and Ubi-Soft taking the next step in trying to prevent piracy (not that its working)...

[K]

We recieved this from UBI which may help people with these issues:
Safe Disk Help (ftp://ukftp.multiplay.co.uk/pub/apps/safedisc/docs/SafeDisc_Help.doc)
As with most companies they dont write there own copy protection they used pre-made in this case SafeDisk this is where to find the solutions.

[the_moog]

Well, I'm afraid that 'guide' is wrong... I don't have the CloneCD tray running and I don't use the Hide CDR function. However, the POS which is FarCry still wouldn't run!

Does anyone read a thread before replying?

Optimus... as I said above, I've now got the NO CD crack and the game is running... it doesn't change how pissed off I am about it.
Yes, I might only be one sale but there are a lot of other people out there in the same situation. UT2004 certainly doesn't use the same level of protection as I'm running that fine... else you'd have seen this thread in the UT2004 section.

FFS, if someone hadn't cracked the game to provide a NOCD patch then I still wouldn't be able to play it. And yet some of you are still defending them! Obviously, if the NOCD crack can be produced WTF would anyone who had pirated it use virtual drives... they'd just apply the crack. Once again some corporate approach to piracy ends up hurting the people who have paid for the game... I can't stress enough how pissed off with UBI/Crytek I am right now and will certainly boycott their products from now on. Voting with my wallet will hurt them and I'm sure other people will be doing the same.

And just saying that it's not their own copy protection as they use safedisk is a non-argument. Ubi/Crytek are 100% responsible for releasing this POS in such a condition. No one else. Did they not test it?

[Joolz]

Although developers don't make their own protection... they do get to configure it. Safedisc allows you to set what protection you want and what rules should/shouldn't be allowed.

Remeber the RavenShield fiasco?

[afty]

Originally posted by Optimus
fs, I dunno why you find it so damn hard to go to GameCopyWorld and get a No CD crack... are you that lazy?
That CD crack is illegal - no-one is claiming it's hard, they are claiming that it's stupid and counter-productive of Ubi to mandate such copy protection measures, they are pissed off at the publisher, and are venting that on an open forum.
Such feedback is good feedback and will lead to changes from the publisher.
Originally posted by Optimus
im just saying you might as well get used to it because all future games are gonna have this same protection
They most certainly will not, this is just a fad stage that the industry is going through. It won't last long.
Originally posted by Optimus
You gonna boycott gaming all together until developers alter their games
It's not too hard. There are thousands of games released each year, and only the largest titles to market will carry such protection measures, and even then only some of them and only for a limited time. There are many gems released each year that never make the top 10 but can be found with a little research and probing, there's no need to boycott gaming altogether just boycott titles that demand you misconfigure your system, or fail to work altogether.
Originally posted by Optimus
potentially increasing the piracy problem but on the off chance that they lose some sales from the odd few people who wont just disable their virtual drives out of principal that it violates their civil rights...
I'm not sure anyone has mentioned civil rights here, but you seem to be missing the scale of the problem. Disabling your virtual drives is not always enough, the copy prevention software is not perfect and may not run even when you have followed their instructions - furthermore, on some machines it is even detecting software when it is not installed, and it also does not work with some optical drives or motherboard/drive combos.
They have sold software that is intentionally crippled, and people are complaining because it is costing them significant amounts of time.
The game is £30, if I spend an hour getting the game to work, it has cost me approx. the same amount again before I even get started, it's only partially about principles, and more about practicality.
Originally posted by Optimus
You may argue 'well im not going to pirate it' but they're looking at the bigger picture... you're just a single sale... they dont *really* care about you...
That's right, for the most part a single sale is not a problem. Is there a single person posting this dozens of times to every major FPS/development/Ubi forum? To gaming news sites? No, there are hundreds of people complaining about these anal measures, possibly even thousands, and you obviously don't have a great deal of PR experience, or you'd know that a single complaint always indicates a number of dissatisfied customers much, much higher.
In politics for example, one letter to an MP is counted as 100 angry constituents, in various offline industries a complaint is weighted as 20 - 50 pissed off customers. I'm guessing in the online world that each complaint is less than 20, but still significantly more than 1.
Finally, in the online world, you have to consider the cost of bad publicity - and thousands of negative posts about your game *will* have an adverse effect on sales.
Using a sample size of 1 (that's me, btw) I can tell you that they have lost 100% of sales due to this mess.
Originally posted by Optimus
an asshole for simply disagreeing with you...
1) 2) 3)
...but I respect Crytek and Ubi-Soft taking the next step in trying to prevent piracy (not that its working)...
If it's not working, why do you respect them?
And I think you'll find we're not calling you an asshole, but any animosity may be explained by the fact you're defending Ubi, but have yet to offer any solid reasons as to why...

They have inconvenienced thousands of consumers, deliberately, in order to use a copy-prevention mechanism which by your own admission is useless - and you are telling these inconvenienced people to stop complaining.... why? Why are their complaints not legitimate?

[Elbonio]

just to really piss off UBI soft instead of boycotting their software, have a mass warezing of it.

Send them a note saying

"You impose stupid, intrusive and down right outrageous copy protection we dont pay for your software. Simple."


;)

[Optimus]

1) yeah, the CD crack is 'illegal' but if you buy the game and us the legit CD key that comes with it, you are effectively just using the excuse that GCW and MegaGames use and say you are simply going for convienience... It's a whole different ball game when you think about it than just flat out warezing...

And saying its good feedback... I hardly think you saying 'infact, im thinking i'll warez it' is gonna make them get off their laurels...

2) Safedisc is hardly a fad... its been around for going on 5 years now...
its entire goal is to stop people getting around it and using copied versions of the software... Until this latest version, it has been fooled by Virtual Drives...

In their eyes, the simplest way to get around the piracy problem is to just stop people being able to easily use rips... Safedisc stops you having the software installed to do it...

basically, instead of finding a more inconspicuous way of dealing with the problem, Macrovision just took the easy way out and made the program fall over any software on ur PC that can be used to circumvent Safedisc...

think of it ash show DAL.net tried to ban a load of BT Internet users from their servers a few years back... instead of binning the specific IP's, they just banned the ISP's address... over the top, but effective?

3) Fine, boycott them... i'll just sit back and play the game safe in the knowledge that I have a legit copy and aren't too up myself to admit defeat and simply turn off Daemon Tools...
Whats that? the game wont even work with other programs? Then switch to Daemon Tools or CloneCD... they do the same...

4) I dunno really how to argue that one anymore... sure, the copy protection is not perfect, but it makes roads into making sure you have a legit disc... You say its intentionally crippled, and yes I agree... its intentionally crippled to make sure you cant copy it...

the latest fad for copying games has been to rip them using a program and load them using virtual drives... its just an uphill fight and the industry is using heavy handed methods to combat it... not their fault... they are a business out there to survive...

on another note, Afty, id sure like to hear your absolutely perfect unbreakable method for copy protection...

5) Again, i agree it is hardly perfect, but its the best way to stop small scale piracy... sure, DEViANCE had the game worked over before it was even out, but thats hardly what im getting at...

what the copy protection is there to do is to stop you (saying, for example, you are some normal computer illiterate who has just bought the latest over priced Dell) from copying the game and selling it to your mates/at car boot sales on DVD-R's...

Whilst I *sympathise* that you are no computer illiterate and would probably buy a legit copy, they have to look at the big picture...

6) When I say 'the protection is failing', I was referring to the online piracy situation where DEViANCE and co. had cracked versions of the game available as soon as it went gold...

and I nowhere am saying that the complaints aren't legit...

maybe its been a simple misunderstanding and as Joolz said, Safedisc has been configured badly/wrong...
most likely it is intentional...

given the uproar, im sure it will be patched, but simply coming on this board, ranting and claiming you wont spend money on the product until its sorted is stupid...

as I said, we're in the same boat Afty...

I have a shuttle, I dont *want* to use my original discs every single time I want to play the game and I only have room for a single optical drive so cant just keep the DVD handy in a separate drive...
I also have Daemon Tools installed and have to disable it to play many of the newer games (and UT2K4 is just as unforgiving if you read the UT forums)

I can ignore the problem...
If you really want to play the game, work around it... delete whatever stupid virtual drive program you have and get one that doesn't cock up...

Did they not test it? Well done, you just bought up the problem with testing any PC program...

given how many PC configurations there are in the world, and how many virtual drive tools that are around, how the hell are they meant to keep track of everything?

SafeDisc is a real-world test... Beta copies probably dont have it...

[Optimus]

btw...

Originally posted by Holes
I'm sure its not Crytek's wrong doing (although I do feel a little bit of double standards from an outfit that used unlicensed software to develop the game). As I remember, those were untrue accusations by a recently let go employee who wanted his revenge...

:)

[the_moog]

Originally posted by Optimus
If you really want to play the game, work around it... delete whatever stupid virtual drive program you have and get one that doesn't cock up...

Jesus! It is not the 'stupid virtual drive program' which is cocking up... IT IS THE SAFEDISK PROTECTION ON THE GAME I'VE PAID FOR!!!

As I've said before, I do have CloneCD and CloneDVD installed but I do not use the tray application and IT STILL WILL NOT RUN without the NOCD crack!

Originally posted by Optimus

its intentionally crippled to make sure you cant copy it...

That's amusing as it does no such thing! It's only the PC which plays the game that can't have such applications installed... I could pirate the game on a.n.other PC, install it on my games PC and apply the NOCD crack, if necessary, et voila! It doesn't stop that! What it does stop is me from running the bloody game from the original CDs without resorting to the NOCD crack.

Yes, I'm enjoying the game a lot but am so motivated against this OTT copy protection ******** that, instead of just applying the crack and going away, I'm continuing to contribute to this thread.

[K]

Originally posted by the_moog
Jesus! It is not the 'stupid virtual drive program' which is cocking up... IT IS THE SAFEDISK PROTECTION ON THE GAME I'VE PAID FOR!!!

As I've said before, I do have CloneCD and CloneDVD installed but I do not use the tray application and IT STILL WILL NOT RUN without the NOCD crack!


To fix CloneCD check the safe Disk help I posted earlier the_moog fixed it for me. Had to load the tray and disable it then close again. Must be some sort of OS level / driver option it uses not the existence of an app running.

Personally I think this is going too far. IMO it doesnt stop people pirating the software it is only annoying the people who have a legitmit copy. Pirates would have a no CD crack. 1000% better is the PB support banning warezed keys. When I first joined our server it was kicking a player on join every 1 minute. Thats the sort of copy protect you want if that could be adapted to single player as well then bobs ur uncle. Forget CD copy protection as your always gonna be two steps behind the crackers.

[Njoroge]

Occasionally I buy an audio CD from a shop and fail to rip it because of the anal copy protection.

I don't listen to CDs, I listen to mp3s. When I can't rip a legit CD, I take it back then download it.

It annoys me.


(off topic is win)

[Freelance]

copy protection on games is almost as old as games themselves (elite's codebook, rob northen copy protection on floppies). the aim is usually to stop easy casual copying. you can't just pop the CD/DVD into you drive and run off 20 perfect copies, and for most users who don't know what a cd crack is (probably doesn't apply to most users of this board) this protection has prevented them making a working copy.

unfortunately for the publishers, there are more and more clued up PC users who either make a copy and get a crack, or can just download it from the net pre-cracked, they forfeit the benifits of a full copy, and don't care about the copy protection.
legit users are stuck with having the CD constantly in their cd drive and now, having tetchy safedisk demanding disabling other programs.

IMO, the target audience for copy protection programs are mostly not affected by it, apart from the casual copier. the problem comes from the fact that software by it's nature can be manipulated (debugged, etc.) and attempts by macrovision will always be a case of "build a better mousetrap, build a better mouse", endless catchup.

One solution i can think of is to have a dongle-like system that is not handled by drivers (software again), i think USB pass-through keys might work. this key would be a small encypted part of the game loaded onto a usb drive. this still comes down to software at the end of the day, but it's reliant on a physical key instead. another system would be like VALVe's steam, where users are authenticated each time they want to play (before they introduced offline mode), if VALVe released HL2 only on steam there might be a lot less piracy of it.

[Optimus]

Freelance sees eye to eye with me...

Originally posted by Freelance
One solution i can think of is to have a dongle-like system that is not handled by drivers (software again), i think USB pass-through keys might work. this key would be a small encypted part of the game loaded onto a usb drive. this still comes down to software at the end of the day, but it's reliant on a physical key instead. Some expensive software is meant to use this... apparantly QuarkExpress does...

[afty]

Originally posted by Freelance
i think USB pass-through keys might work. this key would be a small encypted part of the game loaded onto a usb drive. this still comes down to software at the end of the day, but it's reliant on a physical key instead.
These were called "Dongles" back in the day, and were very popular during the 80s. Like just about every other form of copy protection they were found to be virtually useless and companies stopped using them.
They've been and gone, for many reasons -
1] it's easy to copy a non-proprietary dongle (USB as you suggested)
2] It's expensive to create a proprietary one
3] It's easy to create software to emulate the USB dongle - the software believes it is present when it is not.
4] Cracked copies of the game will be available for download which do not check the dongle.

Originally posted by Freelance
if VALVe released HL2 only on steam there might be a lot less piracy of it.
Why? Someone will download the game and crack it, then distribute it...

[Joolz]

The VALVe steam system has been proved as flawed anyway. You can extract the game from .gcf and then some magic tricks to make it run out of Steam.

FACT: Any software based security measure put in, can be taken out again. Fact of life.

[andyf]

First off, replying to an OLD post from Lucifa - Codemasters' FADE protection is alive and well - it happened to me when trying to get Operation Flashpoint to run on two of my computers. The guns became massively inaccurate and it was not worth playing.


Right back onto the main subject.

I've been onto Play.com and just cancelled my order for the game. If Play had stock in then I would have been just another sales figure for Ubi. At least I have done all I can do and not purchased the game. If more people feel like me then maybe Ubi and the other publishers will respond.


Some of you may have read my thread/posts about Unreal Tournament 2004 and that games inability to run with CD emulation software present. In case you haven't read, a quick recap:

I am fortunate (re: in debt) enough to have a couple of desktop PC's and, recently, a laptop. I have a midi tower PC and CRT monitor, which I got tired of bringing to Lan parties, so I purchased a shuttle and TFT. I bought some nice hardware for the shuttle which has made it very much preferable to my other PC for most purposes, but most relevantly, I play ALL my games on my shuttle now.

Due to wanting a GOOD graphics card and a GOOD sound card, I have no power connectors spare to connect my DVDrom drive. I am reluctant to split a power connector between an existing connection and the DVDrom because the last time I used a splitter was to connect a CDrom to a hard disk. The hard disk had power interruptions and frequently bluescreened Windows. Hence, I don't like shared power.

Without an optical drive, there is an obvious problem of installing games. I get around this by using the other PC and Alcohol 120% to make an image file which I copy across to my shuttle. Then I use Alcohol (or Daemon Tools) to emulate a CD drive.

Now it seems this interferes with the publishers, or developers, policy on copy protection. Now, software I have bought and installed of my own volition to effect a workaround, has caused software houses to prejudice me. Unreal 2004 tells me it will not run because it has found another piece of software on my computer that it doesn't approve of and I have to disable it in order to play the game.

Hang on ... let's take a quick break. Why is software, which costs me money to purchase, telling me it won't run because it sees some other software, which in this case also costs me money, installed and running on my machine? I'm actually getting slightly angry writing this post because someone who I care for enough to buy their product is telling me I can't use it because it doesn't like another product I have.

So, I wrote an email to Atari UK effectively asking for a workaround. The reply did not supply a workaround and in fact gave me no reason to not return the product and get my money back.

Unreal 2004 has a single- and multi- player aspect to it. The multiplayer is clearly the main reason this game will do well, just like its prequels. To be able to play multiplayer online, I require a unique CDkey. I get this key when I buy the game. Atari / Epic MUST REALISE that the main bulk of sales will come from people playing this game MULTIPLAYER, ONLINE. I think MOST people who are familiar with the game will agree with this point. So if you have a warez copy, you will most likely have used a very widely copied CDkey to install it which will therefore have been blacklisted and will NOT allow you to play online. As you cannot get around this by reverse engineering the executable file, you simply MUST buy the game to get a unique key. THAT IS THE PRIMARY REASON I BOUGHT THIS GAME. I want to play team games. I want to play in a social manner with people I know, through the Internet. I DO NOT MIND AT ALL paying an arbitrary sum of money to enable this, because I will enjoy it enough to make it worthwhile. Therefore I am extremely displeased to find that because I have some piece of software that POSSIBLY might be used by someone to POSSIBLY play an unpaid-for copy of the games' LIMITED single player mode, I am unable to play the game online, or indeed, at all.

Ok another quick break - I replied to Atari telling them I would be returning the game. I would have done, were it not for the fact that someone out there found a way to disable this copy protection and released a version of the main executable that allows it to run without this flaw. To my delight, when I tested this executable on my system, it not only worked with my Alcohol 120% image loaded and running with full emulation, but it accepted my legitimate CDkey and allowed me to play it as I desired, online, against/with friends. There are some possible problems with this method but I want to talk about Far Cry now, what with this being the Far Cry forum :)

Far Cry is different to Unreal.

Far Cry has a LARGE single player mode, which for me was a large selling point of the game. However the multiplayer aspect was also intriguing. Anyone who has played the demo may have realised the potential that multiplayer has - anyone who was at i19 may well have experienced that potential first hand playing on the provided machines. I certainly did. I very much welcome to return to a strategic style of gameplay, far removed from the frenetic style of the Quakes and Unreals. This is a thinking game, where cover must be used intelligently, weapons used intelligently, to ensure victory. Hence, I ordered the game from Play.com so I could enjoy this anticipated multiplayer action.

Then I read that Far Cry has the same sort of anti-copy-protection detection schemes that Unreal has. I felt instant dismay and have therefore, regretably to say, cancelled my order. I simply cannot justify buying a game which I cannot make work on my system because a piece of software I use may be used differently by other people. Sorry Ubisoft - I supported your decision 100% to allow Raven Shield to work again on Emulators following the effects of the 1.5 (1.4? I forget) patch but to introduce it AGAIN leaves me disappointed with yourselves and your business decision.

Back to the issues of Unreal, briefly. It has been claimed that a 'cracked' EXE file, that dismisses copy protection checks, is illegal, despite having paid for the product. Well I'm sorry if this is true, but I do not regard this as a particularly important form of illegality. Illegal to me is shooting someone, breaking into a house, committing violent and emotional crimes. Claiming a No-CD patch is illegal to use is akin to the way the UK police prosecute people who wander over the vehicle speed limits by a few miles an hour. It hits me as petty.

You see, I am under the impression that if I have paid money for something, then I 'own' whatever I get for my money. If I get a box with a CD inside, then I regard that as my property. If I want the contents of that CD to be stored in an alternative format and used or manipulated in a different way to original intention, then I feel I have the right to do so. Likewise, if I buy a music CD, I would feel I have the right to copy this music from the CD onto a portable music playing device so I can listen to it in whatever way I chose.

I'm getting tired typing this now so I'll conclude by saying that I detest this perceived violation of fair use rights by the soft-co's and will be protesting in my own way by refusing to buy software that uses these checks.


Final Note, and I'm sure people won't like this one: It's easier to get hold of a warez copy of Unreal 2004 and Far Cry, that is cracked to ignore copy protection, than it is to buy the game from a store and play legitimately. Funny that.

PS. In case anyone thinks I'm talking crap about buying games ... look here for proof (http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ajfogg/games.jpg)

[T5UNAM1]

Those of you complaining about Far Cry should take a look at this.

http://dreamcatcherinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15988&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

It seems the Far Cry (safedisc 3.15) problems were minor compared to what's going on with Painkiller (safedisc 3.20)

I was looking forward to buying this game next week but I think I'll give it a miss now.

[Optimus]

same arguements as in here... same results reached...

as the developers are saying (more vocally that Crytek/Ubisoft are being) its entirely down to the version of Safedisc used...
there is old incompatible hardware out there, and they dont want you copying it...

sure, you lot probably are good guys, but for every one of you, there is at least one other who has bought the game, ripped it to an image file and returned it... its just trying to stop that... you cant blame them for wanting to make a profit...

[Freelance]

i really, really, REALLY, think publishers need to rethink how they go about copy protection. not "we'll just purchace safedisk, again" and piss off that "small and insignificant" part of out customer base. the drives affected may be rare, but people use them, and they want to play your game. people use image drives, and they want to play your game.

[Optimus]

true, and like I kept trying to say (but feel I was misunderstood) publishers are going to keep using these forms of copy protection, regardless of how brute force and uneffective a method it is, since it guarentees as many upfront sales as possible...

the game developers (and sometimes the publishers) themselves know it hurts their customers but they are after all businesses...

Epic get it right with UT... the system of removing CD protection 2-3 patches down the line once they have got most of their sales is the sensible way out...
Whilst it doesn't trip the l33t h4x0rs from DEViANCE or Razor1911 up, it stops consumer pirates from buying and returning their games so quickly (unless they are 'in the know')

Unfortunately, companies are usually either way to protective over their property, or just dont give a damn about the customers...
Most publishers fall into the former... the latter is reserved for asshole corporations like EA...

[Freelance]

amen, if only we could organise enough gamers to boycott games with asshat copy protections. :( you know that it would only take one brill game to break the 'picket line' though

[T5UNAM1]

Very well put Optimus, I agree with you on everything apart from your first paragraph...

I don't think using this method does ensure upfront sales, in fact I think it damages them more than anything. Especially if the game isn't an 'A' grade such as Doom3.
High profile games like Doom3 or HL2 could get away with it.
Painkiller and games like it, aren't in that league and will suffer as a consequence.

Like I said in my post, I was going to buy this game but after reading that forum, I wont touch it with a barge pole.
I know I'm only one sale but how many other people will feel the same way once the word gets around?

[Optimus]

t5unam1, if you read, the first paragraph is actually sound... :)

when a game is released, its when the publisher is actively supporting it... its the time when the highest volume of sales is achieved, and to make sure of this, they want the least number of returned copies...

the aim of Safedisc protection is to stop the average joe buying a game, copying it and returning it...

[T5UNAM1]

Originally posted by Optimus
t5unam1, if you read, the first paragraph is actually sound... :)

when a game is released, its when the publisher is actively supporting it... its the time when the highest volume of sales is achieved, and to make sure of this, they want the least number of returned copies...

the aim of Safedisc protection is to stop the average joe buying a game, copying it and returning it...

I know what you're trying to say but the 'average joe' wont buy the game in the first place or will return it if safedisc causes problems like this.

Your 'average joe' either: wouldn't know how to upgrade their drives firmware or would be too scared to do it for fear of breaking it.

[Optimus]

but when I say 'returning it', I mean 'ripping a copy using a imaging tool and then returning it claiming it doesn't work etc.' :)