Who Has More Skill? [Archive] - Multiplay UK Forums

jaybo

14th June 2003, 12:45

saCTF sort of shows who the don is.

Sniper instant hit weps coupled with armour/belts/amps/health.

Statistics show a mix of both.

Allied Enemies(AE) (recognised best in the world ladder insta clan) lost to Limit (LT) (NW clan) in the final...twice.....
[h]onour beat the UK's recognised best insta clan X
12M (nw clan) beat wfh (insta legends)

imo, NW have the advantage due to health/powerup placement and the insta boys win on gauntlet...but thats it.

So statistically, NW ownz

Ho-Ho-Ho

16th June 2003, 16:40

I only play ICTF because ya dont need skill to play it, all ya need is a decent ping and thats it:p

Ho-Ho-Ho

16th June 2003, 16:43

oops

MøHåWk

17th June 2003, 07:41

I used to play NW...a LONG LONG time ago and back then if you could use translocator well then you owned almost every1. * telefrag* *telefrag* . Its hard to say if NW or iGiB needs more skill.

piddle spank

17th June 2003, 11:50

translocator on face soo much fun :D

^M0eZz|e^

17th June 2003, 17:12

Well obviously nw needs more skill as you got more weapons. But I still voted for insta because a lot of nw-people always think they are so much compared to instagib, and I dont like people that think that are so much :rolleyes:

Boomrups

18th June 2003, 06:33

That's deep Moezzle :D

milou

18th June 2003, 08:43

I think it's a spiritual thing ;0

|Lucifer|MnM|

18th June 2003, 09:51

Cant really compare gametypes - insta is all about aim and movement while weapons is about map and powerup control.

Jaybo your point that NW owns insta is flawed if you base that on the fact that NW clans did better than insta clans in the sniper cup - of course they are gonna be better being more used to the weapons, having pickups and controlling the map - sniper arena plays much like NW just without the additional weapons.

I remember some NW guy (cant remember name or clan) bragging about how NW players are more skilled and would be able to beat insta teams at insta.

He got his clan together and they played a combination of <|MnM|> and PW players as I remember it - one game of insta and one game of NW.

The NW team got trashed in insta by a huge score, and when they played NW the NW team took the lead, but the insta squad managed to get the score level at which point the NW team left the server......

I have no idea how good/bad the NW squad was and I use this story as an example. I doubt that a top insta squad would be able to compete in NW against a top NW clan without a lot of praccy - although I think a top NW clan would be able to give a top insta clan a run for there money - I think its much easier to adapt from playing NW to insta than the other way around.

In short I think both gametypes take a lot of skill to play at a high level.

/me sits on fence :D

Galandriel

18th June 2003, 15:33

Yer indeed Luc, I've tried playin nw several times but I usually end up sighing and not trying it again till my next crazy mood :p

|Lucifer|MnM|

18th June 2003, 18:54

I started out as a NW ctf player - was able to play at a good standard at the time and was about to join a NW clan when I was asked to join an insta clan.. (cant play NW now for **** lol)

rest is history

Azazel

18th June 2003, 19:06

Originally posted by |Lucifer|MnM|
I think its much easier to adapt from playing NW to insta than the other way around.

In short I think both gametypes take a lot of skill to play at a high level.

I agree with that :)

MøHåWk

19th June 2003, 18:42

Why can you only choose iCTF or NW and not ME or sumet :p:

|Lucifer|MnM|

20th June 2003, 09:46

Originally posted by MøHåWk
Why can you only choose iCTF or NW and not ME or sumet :p:

:smile-l:

MøHåWk

21st June 2003, 17:51

Someone has to stand out of the crowd you know :o

Lord Grim

23rd June 2003, 21:16

Depends on your definition of skill really

Skill isnt memorizing maps, boosts, powerup locations and timings, this is practice and dedication to the game, and how lame you are.

SKill is knowing what weapon to use when, accuracy with both hitscan AND projectile weapons, movement. When to hide, when to leg it.

While NW players will have skill in knowing what weapon to use and how to use them, the insta players are bound to have better movement and judgement for the most part.

Accuracy is a mute point, required more in insta but its almost as much a part in NW with the shock whores and snipers. NW players also need foresight with launchers and stuff.

The main edge from one good player to another in NW is their knowledge of maps and things, whereas in insta movement is normally the key.

I also think NW is well in a word, lame. Flak, the fantastic spam-as-much-as-you-can gun, same with the ripper. (although i do love the ripper.. hehehe) More you camp, more points you get really. The players who can time powerups better than the other team will often come out on top i suspect.

Instagib is the pure combat, no one player gets an advantage besides his position on the map. Pure toe to toe combat.

SO who has more skill? Neither. They have skill equally spread about in different areas :p:

MøHåWk

25th June 2003, 09:57

In Insta you also need mapknowledge. Because on some areas in maps you can do tricks or hide easier then in other parts of the maps.
The nasty thing about NW imo is the translocator....i mean you dont need to dodge tbh in NW uf you can use the translocator very well you just telfrag peeps on yuor way in only the way out when you got the flag is abit trickier coz you cant use the tranny anymore.

You cant really compare these 2 different gametypes.
I do know that NW peeps can play insta easier then Gibbers NW!

:angel:

^od

10th July 2003, 11:52

there cant be any arguement really
instagib is a mutator - a cut down incomplete version of the game
NW is the full game

the full game requires a much broader depth of skills and more intelligence :p

Gaspode

10th July 2003, 11:54

flak cannon?
nuff sed
:p:

^od

10th July 2003, 16:28

i'd like to see you using flak cannon on lavagiant for 20 mins ;)

NuFF$@iD

13th July 2003, 01:29

ok simple to solve :) , just get stuffswapper or so and add 1 supashockrifle to the inventory along with the nw weapons then play.

watches the gibbers floor the nw guys lol

Azazel

13th July 2003, 02:03

Are you guys unable to use a sniper ;) or do you need a whole body as well to aim at ;)

RookieWan

14th July 2003, 08:20

Er... is there any point?
NW CTF is a different game compared to iCTF.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses. IMHO class gibbers tend to suck big time in NW games, while decent NW players can get along well in iCTF.

Does it mean one game(type) is better then the other? No. Both have their charms.

iCTF less spammy, but uber conservative regarding maps, check out the CB ladders if u disagree. But quite a lot ( not all) iCTF clans think they're uber l33t professional clans, and will let you know if u 'assrun', 'camp' or if ur a 'n00b', preferrebly 10 times in a row :( Unfortunately of the 5 CB ladder games we played 3 of these gave us a very bad feeling about iCTF/ iCTF clans and iCTF player attitudes.

NW CTF can be more spammy ( flak), but tends to be more tactical, because the nme can get past a defense with good TL-ing or telefragging. It's certainly a lot more fast paced than iCTF. Control of the power ups are vital, so clans who can time well have an edge. Obviously this is also the weakness in NW CTF, you never know if the opponent is using F1, an egg timer or an external timer. The general attitude of most clans is more relaxed, although we might have been unlucky with the iCTF clans we played recently.

Neway my 0.02 :)

p.s. I play both NW and iCTF. Against class opponents, there's not much difference in the fun factor of either game type :)

NuFF$@iD

14th July 2003, 19:01

well since a gibber uses the same weapon all the time and its a 1 shot 1 kill weapon then he/she must develop the skils to not get shot and to frag very fast.
lets face it to cap in instagib u have to shoot your way past the enemy and normally have to kill the same peeps again to escape.
now in nw like u said ,just telle past all and frag none , then take the flag and hope your sniper mates are all cammped and zoomed in on the opposite teams def so u can basically just run with the flag. " like to see a sniper play without any zoom on :)"

guess what im saying is, let loose a team of realy good insta players with supashockrifles vs some nw team using there different weapons and see who is the skilled fraggers. :)

Azazel

14th July 2003, 19:36

You'll find most good NW players rarely use zoom tbh

NuFF$@iD

15th July 2003, 19:30

set a match up , im sure we can get 5 gibbers and 5 nw players to play. just run stuffswapper and add that supashockrifle ,then set it so we can have it to spawn with

Azazel

15th July 2003, 20:36

GKC vs Levi :)

GKC only allowed insta weapons, Levi can use all NW

^od

16th July 2003, 08:52

Originally posted by NuFF$@iD

guess what im saying is, let loose a team of realy good insta players with supashockrifles vs some nw team using there different weapons and see who is the skilled fraggers. :)

sounds like you've only played face NW to be honest (there arent many zoomed camper snipers on ANY other map)

i would argue about instagibbers being the more "skilled fraggers"

in instagib its fairly simple, you predict where you expect enemies to be, ie corners, doorways etc and strafe / click, maybe some jerk reaction kills, but who cares, you have infinant ammo so no worries if you miss.
in normal weapons you have to fight in all 3 dimensions as obviously other players can translocate, you have to hit people at least twice normally with primary shock before they die, you have to consider ammo limitations and weapon locations to get to when you spawn - i can tell you, theres a LOT more pressure on you when you have 1 bullet left to frag the EFC as he's approaching his base on lavagiant than any instagib kill you'll see.

on a side note: Translocator is too much for a lot of (now instagib) players to handle, "oh dear god, a character that is not dodging, jumping OR strafing? what will i do? how about moan about them using trans instead of getting my aim and 3d depth perception better, - and due to the large number of those unable to kill people using trans and then moaning and coverting to instagib: caused epic to UTTERLY Fook UP 2k3 CTF to the point where it never took off and never will do.

and as for a NW vs igib match, if NW's had trans and IG team didnt, i bet they'd do nothing but whinge about it all game long ;)

NuFF$@iD

16th July 2003, 09:53

nah m8 i started of a nw player myself for a long time i used all the weapons . the thing is in NW u have shieldbelt, armour pads and healthkegs , so u get hit big deal u just run away and top up then return for another go.

Now in instagib theres none of that u get hit your instantly dead there are no topups no shields nothing ,its all about killing peeps without being killed. for me to cap on face think about it, with nw i would tranlocate to the flag room ,take flag and run like hell prolly with the damageamplifier and some rockets. meantime my teammates can be spamming away with the flack or standing still shockwhoring with the big blast.

with gib i have to travel the whole way to the flag room on foot and face an opponent with an equal weapon to my own and the only way i can even take his flag is to frag him, there is no easy way in or out, its a simple matter of whoes the better fragger not whos the best powerup dude or spammer.

instagib is far harder than nw ,dont belive me go play face or lava with nw then play vs some good gibbers the same map and u will cry as score will mostly always be 0-0 because its so hard to frag everyone .

just look @ the clanbase cups for nw and gib ,then find where face has been played for insta and most of time its 0-0 or gone 60 mins in overtime where face was the deciding map just to get it to 1-0.

^od

16th July 2003, 11:54

im not debating its harder to cap, im saying does not involve more skill or aim, because you're spawning with infinite ammo and the spawn points on maps like Face, lava etc, werent designed in mind for instagib

(and once again your example of flag running is face, nobody plays face in clan wars)

"its a simple matter of whoes the better fragger not whos the best powerup dude or spammer. "

i disagree with that, its who ever has the most luck, which is why you seem to get a large quantity of "top" instagib players, everyone can pull off the same type of spree running caps, its just a question of who can be the most consistant, however the "best" instagib attackers can be thwarted by the lowliest of beginners whereas you play a "best" NW attacker and i can guarantee you they will win because there are more factors involved, ie Intelligence, Experience and not necessarily spam.

In fact the best attackers on coret for example are the ones who dont spam, the silent stealthy cappers.

"and u will cry as score will mostly always be 0-0 because its so hard to frag everyone ."

you didnt follow last NW EC final did you? or last 2 nations cup finals obviously :p
past 2 nations cups have been about 2 hours worth of overtime between them. and last EC = 0-0, 1-1, 0-0, 1-1, 2-1 after overtime

capping less does not indicate a harder game, it indicates instagib was an afterthought for maps like face & lava etc ;)

oxy

28th July 2003, 01:22

play some DM u fabric carrying fools!

SoliloQuy

28th July 2003, 17:48

bah NW whats with that funny thing that tranports you to another place and makes a funny noise??

Insta is more evenly matched because everyone is an equal with weapon etc, insta is faster,harder and better imo, NW is only good for TKing :P

^od

you didnt follow last NW EC final did you? or last 2 nations cup finals obviously :p

what 2 hours of pitching a tent in your best camp position :p:

[WychDoG]

30th July 2003, 15:15

i have high respect for any good NW's player

idd i have never been talented enough to play NW at a top level

but in insta i can play at a decent level

why? well....experience, prediction....little bit of skill

i do believe aim is more crucial in insta in more situations than it is in NW as NW has some spammy weapons requiring a good aim but not...dead on accuracy (cept sniper of course)

its very true that an insta player is generally (few exceptions) not as good at NW as a NW's player is at insta but any insta player with some sense realises this and wont even argue

so....to go back to the 'what has more skill'

its hard to compare both in my eyes...its like saying 'what takes more skill, giving birth to a child or actually delivering the child' (i.e. the doctor)

probably a bad comparison but all i could think of lol

HeMp

8th August 2003, 11:03

People saying players are evenly matched in insta and not in nw are silly... dont all the players have access to the same weps on the map?

I know having to remember where 10 weapons and 2+ powerups on a map can be a strain on the mind, but your as even to your opponent as you make yourself.

Like od said, NW is more 3d compared to the simpleness of insta.

|eCLiPSe|

8th August 2003, 23:08

ok minions heres how i see it, basically as Nuffsaid has been saying, altho with a difference, dont have it CTF instead have it DM, then theres no debate on whether to play Face or not, cause that way the NW's have a big edge, the skill to use a translocater well, and also all the damn snipers, if its DM, all the NW's can really do is bunny hop around (as they mostly do cause they really have no good movement skill, no offense, but i say this from experiance) and spam the place with flak, bio, rockets etc until they get hit by some dude with an insta rifle doing 600 FPH vs all those spammers, what would even make the atmosphere a hell of a lot better is have it TeamLMS with death limits of 100 on all players, and watch instant deaths begin (hehe i mean NW's suiciding on their own spammage)
/me is ^|eCLiPSe|^ btw #goth.ut

HeMp

9th August 2003, 22:00

Do u honestly think people would be running around spamming rockets and bio? :|

And saying from your experience do u mean in ffa games? Cause thats the only place i see people running around spamming like noobs
:p:

HUNTER

10th August 2003, 09:27

Normal Weapons, Insta is too easy

RookieWan

11th August 2003, 13:29

Well, I've been playing insta a lot recently and I've had almost no time to play many games of NW, and the conclusion of this question is simple: NW is the game type with more skill.

[SM]eGnition

11th August 2003, 14:26

Piston Arena all the way, babeh!

sktz

20th August 2003, 12:43

IG is better peroid.
/me gibs neone who say that aint so :D

^od

26th August 2003, 18:57

Originally posted by MyNameWasTaken
if its DM, all the NW's can really do is bunny hop around

yes that makes sense, explains why [f] and ocr* etc dominated both the CTF and DM NW scenes when they were about... and why fairly competant CTF players can be considerably better at DM... in top TDM clans... because they were noobs and bunny hopped around? hmmm

and then theres always the cases of NW tdm clans winning instagib games vs insta clans...
lol /eu/ vs mi7 was barrel of laughs imho :p

lets face it the CTF NW clans would be better at TDM NW than the instagibbers, mainly because TDM involves hitscan weapon rape and PU control, which igib doesnt have any experience with whatsoever :)

p.s WychDocta put across the best point so far really, that they're 2 different things, comparing them in terms of 'skill' means you actually have to have a definition of skill itself - timing is a skill, aim is a skill, prediction is a skill, movement is a skill, experience and being in the right place at the right time is a skill... etc etc...

i just tend to generalise in that NW requires a much broader range of skills :p

Jubei

29th August 2003, 09:37

Well in my opinion they both require skills to master and can both be equally difficult.

While an NW player finds it easier to make the transition to insta than an insta player does to move to NW, this does not mean "OMFG NW PLAYERS ARE MORE 1337". Far from it.

To be good at NW you have to be a jack of all trades, but you do not need to necessarily master any of them. If you're a good mover/aimer/thinker/translamer ;) then you can be good at NW...make just one of those excellent and you have an edge.

With instagib, if you don't master the skills required then you're going to die lots, lets face it. If you don't have excellent movement, excellent prediction and excellent aim then you're stuffed, period.

Someone mentioned having an NW vs igib game, with transloc enabled then watch us igibbers whinge. Hmm. TBH bring it on, decent insta players will either shoot ur transloc out of the air or nail you as you spawn, with relative ease.

I reckon MPUK should host such a game, tbh :)

Azazel

29th August 2003, 09:57

Clanbase iCTF 1/8th Finals
.pa - 4 NW and 1 Insta Player
vs
BAD - "Claim" to be Spains best Insta clan

http://www.clanbase.com:8000/scrshot/1853395_3.jpg
Cough can I hear owned?

Jubs, get together your best team from your insta league and I will do the same from NW.
We will have this match and you are gonna get p4wned :p:

mossa

29th August 2003, 10:05

I think the skill levels are about the same but in different skills
Nw I think is the harder to master much more to think about etc

Jubei

29th August 2003, 10:07

Originally posted by Azazel
Clanbase iCTF 1/8th Finals
.pa - 4 NW and 1 Insta Player
vs
BAD - "Claim" to be Spains best Insta clan

http://www.clanbase.com:8000/scrshot/1853395_3.jpg
Cough can I hear owned?

Jubs, get together your best team from your insta league and I will do the same from NW.
We will have this match and you are gonna get p4wned :p:

ur on translamer

[SM]eGnition

29th August 2003, 10:38

Oooer ! Bring it on !

Coma

31st August 2003, 11:06

Im up for Insta vs NW game, sounds like a right laugh :D

^od

2nd September 2003, 14:56

muhrhrhr :x

[SM]tom

3rd September 2003, 15:02

how somebody could even possibly consider instajive has more skill than nw is beyond me. moving combos vs point and click........... er we have a winner? the list is endless and i've got work to do. go spawn rape people by camping at the SB on eternal caves or something :rolleyes:

Jubei

3rd September 2003, 18:28

And yet insta is winning the poll...

Limi

3rd September 2003, 20:37

/me starts a anti-insta ralley ;)

[SM]tom

3rd September 2003, 20:42

lol i think people are going to vote for their own game types somehow. the poll doesnt prove anything. and seriously when was the last time you heard of a big cup for insta. CB and jolt dont count. im talking wcg, eswc, cpl etc. the ones where people win $5000+, not a little gold cup by the side of their name on a clanbase website. :rolleyes: