College / Freedom of Speech

[GeeDee]

Just thought i'd share the sheer LAME IT skillz that my college seem to have.

I believe they've been going through logs and looking at EVERY site that students have been browsing over the last two weeks and filtering accordingly. As a result, they have filtered the MPUK forums :eek: . (Well, took me all of 2 seconds to get around - just connect via IP address, but that's not the point).

So, does anyone know what the laws are regarding human rights / freedom of speech? Could I go up and ask them to remove filtering to a site such as these forums under the grounds that they are restricting my freedom of speech with electronic censorship?

:)

-GeeDee-

[Cyberdude]

If you were given `conditions of acceptable use`, and were informed that web activity would be monitored and filtered then there is nothing you can do about it. I used to write the conditions of use for an IT network at one of the oxford uni depts.

But if they have not given guidence or made the infomation available then you can complain. This will be very swiftly followed by conditions of acceptable use and new policy LOL.

I guess the crux of it is they have to let you know the rules before they can impose restrictions. Either way they win.

oh well just have to rely on l33t skilz to get to the forums :-)
How about a vnc session to your home pc ? ;-) or terminal services heh heh


Cd

[TheGuyver]

Originally posted by GeeDee
Just thought i'd share the sheer LAME IT skillz that my college seem to have.

I believe they've been going through logs and looking at EVERY site that students have been browsing over the last two weeks and filtering accordingly. As a result, they have filtered the MPUK forums :eek: . (Well, took me all of 2 seconds to get around - just connect via IP address, but that's not the point).

So, does anyone know what the laws are regarding human rights / freedom of speech? Could I go up and ask them to remove filtering to a site such as these forums under the grounds that they are restricting my freedom of speech with electronic censorship?

:)

-GeeDee-

OOOOOO :)

Guess what my job is? thats right! IT Tech at a college :))

Depending on how the college is funded depends on how thier connection is granted to them. In our case it is provided onthe basis that we maintain an AUP which includes and is not limited to blocking porn, chat/forums etc etc because the line is given to us for "academic" usage. Now you can argue for the all the tea in china, but forums do not consititue academic usage. so dont even go there :P

EDIT also we MUST maintain logs.

However that said it does depend on the jobsworth in question. I will always block porn sites without a 2nd thought.

However i let most forums go as i myself use this one alot. the only time i dont let them go is when a student or students spend stupid times at a computer on the same site/s. and dont attend lessons because of it.

So in short, as cyberdude puts it, you are stuffed :)

oh and even if forums are not specifically mentioned, if it mentions anything about academic use or chat or chat based websites, you = fubar :P

also, dont think they wont notice you using the ip instead of the www address :)

[Afty]

Until they put duct tape on your mouth, they haven't impinged upon your freedom of speech.

Incidentally, it's the USA that has a constitutional clause guaranteeing freedom of speech, here in the UK we have no such thing.

[Cyberdude]

WOW such a short email from the novelist afty !

/me gets duct tape for afty I WILL IMPINGE YOU ;-)

heh heh


Cd

[Skoffin]

Originally posted by afty
Until they put duct tape on your mouth, they haven't impinged upon your freedom of speech.

Incidentally, it's the USA that has a constitutional clause guaranteeing freedom of speech, here in the UK we have no such thing.

Actually, I think there's something in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the UN that covers freedom of expression in the UN members (including the UK). But yeah, you're right in that we are constitutionally lacking such a thing.

[bigc90210]

the MPUK forums got banned from our college when me n mr roll were on them "excessivley" during college time, i now sleep instead :)

[Boffykins]

I'm not sure about this, but I was thinking Data Protection Act. Surely we have our own data on these Fora (Name, DOB, Email), that we should be able to access from college? Them restricting our access breaks the DPA, does it not?

[SquireMuldoon]

No, it does not.

[Skoffin]

Originally posted by Boffy
I'm not sure about this, but I was thinking Data Protection Act. Surely we have our own data on these Fora (Name, DOB, Email), that we should be able to access from college? Them restricting our access breaks the DPA, does it not?

The DPA is geared towards making sure that data doesn't 'fall into the wrong hands' rather than guaranteeing access to it. Though I think it does have provisions for accessing data held about you by a company. Anyway, the college has the right to block whatever it wants.

Your best bet would be to write an eloquent letter asking them politely to let you access the site or just ask the right people very nicely.

[Brains-Lans]

I attend the same college as GeeDee and Boffy, and I have asked for things in the past and will tell you now that our main IT administrator is a bit of a BOFH towards us 'knowing' ones. Nice to "Mr/Miss how do i print....." but to us I get the feeling that we get remotley logged and our desktops watched as a 'big brother' documentary.

All we can do is either accept that the forums are blocked to us at college, or ignore them and get our internet access removed.

But to be honest this is one of the highlights of my college day as well as IRC and all the other sites we all 'live for.'

As far as I am concerned we dont cause harm in comparision to the guy in my computing class who looks at porn all lesson.

We could be defined as 'taking the piss' but we arent distructive or disruptive.

**EDIT**

Just googled the human rights act....

Article 10: Freedom of Expression

Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association


But as has been said somewhere in the college PC's AUP i think chatting is clearly defined as banned.

**/EDIT**

[Zenith]

When you log into the machines at my college, there is a disclaimer right above the login box that is essentially "If
you log into this machine, you are consenting to waive ALL rights, be monitored, and have the results of that monitoring used without limitation"

If you don't agree, you don't log in. Kind of difficult when you use the computer facilities at college as part of your computing course. They've got you over a barrel and there's not a lot you can do against it.

And they (the Systems people) know it. :(

[Afty]

When you're at college, you're there to study. My taxes pay for you to sit on your arse at that college, and if you ain't going to study and learn to contribute your share to my economy, then kindly get out of college and go stack some shelves or flip some burgers and pay for *YOUR OWN* fricking internet access.

[Baz]

Originally posted by afty
Until they put duct tape on your mouth, they haven't impinged upon your freedom of speech.

Incidentally, it's the USA that has a constitutional clause guaranteeing freedom of speech, here in the UK we have no such thing.

we are legally, still a monarchy, so if the queen decided to in a mad fit, she could abolish parliament, and take control of the whole country, enforce conrol of the press and turn us into a mad dictatorship. (yes even after the civil war, and yes it is really stupid). only she wouldnt because we'd all rise up and beat her and her family to death or something.

we arnt citizens
we are subjects

<anti-monarchy rant over>

[Boffykins]

Originally posted by afty
When you're at college, you're there to study. My taxes pay for you to sit on your arse at that college, and if you ain't going to study and learn to contribute your share to my economy, then kindly get out of college and go stack some shelves or flip some burgers and pay for *YOUR OWN* fricking internet access.

You have NO IDEA how much i've tried to get Brains-Lans to do that...

[SL_iCe^]

Originally posted by afty
When you're at college, you're there to study. My taxes pay for you to sit on your arse at that college, and if you ain't going to study and learn to contribute your share to my economy, then kindly get out of college and go stack some shelves or flip some burgers and pay for *YOUR OWN* fricking internet access.
Little harsh don’t you think. ppl do pay to attend college too.
plus if you have lectures like i do at college, then they don’t teach you much at all.
me and Buffy find ourselves exploring and "ignoring the teacher"
we explore our own capabilities, the use online helps to figure out problems we may have, our lectures (most) are not very helpful. :/
if i cant find any info that sorts the problem out then ill try and find a forum where there seem to be knowledgeable people, ill stick a simple question in, stating that I’m in need of a little help,
(not get them to do work for me)

the part about go stack shelves or flip some burgers...
:/
i work in a supermarket while i attend college, and just so happens Buffy 'flips burgers' (works at a fast food chain) while he attends college.
i found this disheartening tbh,

[BatWick]

well Afty....

We also have free time, things liek diinner and breaks. During which time i check things like eBay, go on forums and browse the net.

Technically its not contibuting to my education, but it is, forums get my typing skills a little faster, and debating skills honed, i read the news gives me an all round picture, and buy books on eBay to read. And when i am working i will be paying for other people to do the same, see at the end i will still get my qualifications, but i will have more experience behind me.

But when you cant read BBC news, because its about the spread of HIV on the front page, and hgence blocked, cant read websites becase they have the word "gay" on them, and can't access hardly any pages to do with C++ (part of my computing course) because the pages with the guides usually contain pageso n hacking, cracking or other things they dont want us to see.

Pretty much the only thing that gets past is porn adverts, and the occasional site, and i consider this a waste of the resources, sure not everybody would use them in the best way all the time, but another reason they are there is to let people have a go who otherwise would not get internet access, i dont think it would do any harm letting us look at what we want.

Currently i use http proxy chaining to read BBC news. How much more of an example do you want!

BTW i also work part time to be able to stay in the 6th form and hopefully go to uni. I work at pizza hut, but its almost flipping burgers so there you go.

[Baz]

1337 tesco crew here :D

[Boffykins]

Safeway, or Morrisons/Asda/Sainsbury's/Whoever we are this week all the way, baby!

[Baz]

lol our town has

tescos
waitrose
sainsburys
iceland
somerfield

in a town of less than 10,000

rivalry between em can escalate to gang-war propartions.
probably.

[SL_iCe^]

my store owns all yours! lets be honest!

KWIKSAVE!!!!! OH YEAR BABY!!!
:rolleyes:

i agree batwick but i also agree some things should be blocked. and it must be hard for the admins to decide what is okay and what aint.

unless they use those resources them selves then it v'easy to get wrong idea and block them when really there note wrong.

Imo it’s a case of speaking to the admin and asking him why he blocked that resource. and if you feel he got wrong idea, then try to enlighten him... whups i say he. may well be a female.

-edit- i said baz. i realised i shoul dhave said batwick.

[BatWick]

what things should be blocked do you feel?

and our blocking is for whole Rotherham area, i email company that does it and tell them they have blocked BBC news, they say talk to school, school say tell rotherham, rotherham say talk to blocking company. Just pass the buck around.

[Patch]

Ive only actually looked at the inital post. Im sure Afty has said something similar to what im about to say.

In a rather indirect way I am paying for you to be at that college. Go and do some work instead of wasting your time and my money reading the ****e that gets posted on these forums.

[Darkblane]

Hehe, I get the best of both worlds .... I work, I go to college, work pay for me going to college .... I spend the time at both browsing these forums (and occasionally working/learning).

The answer, get a modern apprenticeship ... especially an IT apprenticeship ... where as far as I can see, there is no filtering at work (though I don't go around surfing for pr0n to find out) and college have pretty slack filtering and filter barely nothing as far as I can see...

When you're at college, you're there to study. My taxes pay for you to sit on your arse at that college, and if you ain't going to study and learn to contribute your share to my economy, then kindly get out of college and go stack some shelves or flip some burgers and pay for *YOUR OWN* fricking internet access.

p.s. WTF, Afty, should people have to spend time working in ****hole jobs, with no prospects etc etc when they can spend time at college (even if they don't learn anything) get a qualification and thus get a far better job in the long run.

It's better for someone to get a good, long term job, even if it takes a bit longer to get, as in the end, they will be contributing a bigger share to the economy, than if they were serving the community in MaccyDs or something.

Oh, and I'd rather have my taxes go to fellow lan slackers at college, than the government go spending it on some other stupid thing ... i.e. immigrants that are not genuine asylum seekers, and just want all our money, jobs and houses or on thier pay rises.

(ok, so I haven't yet started to pay taxes yet, as I haven't earnt enough yet this year ... but I should have to start within a few months ...)

(Wow, that post is almost as long as one of Afty's usual.)

[Afty]

I don't believe for a second all your MPUK browsing is done only at lunch time or on breaks. But then, if you used the college phone for free to phone your MPUK mates, would that be OK because it's on your lunch or breaks?

It's like I have a great deal of room to talk, because I'm at work from 9 till 5 while browsing the forums .... but at least it's not your taxes paying my salary :)

[TheGuyver]

Originally posted by afty
When you're at college, you're there to study. My taxes pay for you to sit on your arse at that college, and if you ain't going to study and learn to contribute your share to my economy, then kindly get out of college and go stack some shelves or flip some burgers and pay for *YOUR OWN* fricking internet access.

HERE ****ING HERE! Well said :)

[Afty]

Originally posted by Darkblane
p.s. WTF, Afty, should people have to spend time working in ****hole jobs, with no prospects etc etc when they can spend time at college (even if they don't learn anything) get a qualification and thus get a far better job in the long run.

If someone goes to college and doesn't learn anything, regardless of whether they got their qualification certificate or not, they have completely wasted their time and my taxes. If you're not willing to learn, and you're only there to goof off, then flipping burgers for 40 years is all you deserve.

Note that I'm not decrying getting a job in fast food : Bill Gates made an excellent speech a few years back to a bunch of college students : he said "Your grandparents had a word for flipping burgers : opportunity".

Originally posted by Darkblane
It's better for someone to get a good, long term job, even if it takes a bit longer to get, as in the end, they will be contributing a bigger share to the economy, than if they were serving the community in MaccyDs or something.

No, this is something which is quite obvious : If someone gets a better job simply because they have a certificate and didn't bother to learn their trade, they don't contribute any more to the economy by being in a management or executive job than they would in a food service job - they just get a bigger slice of the pie without deserving it.

This is pretty basic economics : you can't contribute more to the economy than the result of your skills multiplied by the amount of work you do - but you can take out a huge great chunk of the economy if you get a big contract you don't deserve.


Originally posted by Darkblane
Oh, and I'd rather have my taxes go to fellow lan slackers at college, than the government go spending it on some other stupid thing ... i.e. immigrants that are not genuine asylum seekers, and just want all our money, jobs and houses or on thier pay rises.

Well, for one thing I'd rather pay less taxes overall... And the funny thing is, most of those immigrants work damn hard after they get here - and their kids usually get well educated despite being at ****ty inner city schools. It's about work ethic.

Of course, I'm sure some people will chime in with pot...kettle...black analogies here :)

[TheGuyver]

Well when we banned planetarion a few years ago and a couple of chat sites the student body decided to let thier feelings known to us about this.

We listened and agreed a comprimise. we are not killjoys and recognise that we could get away with using a 56k modem for actual academic/research usage. so those sites that allowed games/popular forums etc would be available during lunch and between 4-5.30 in the evening.

We soon had to change the lunch rule, as every computer was filled with people doing this crap and people who really wanted to work couldnt.

So yes, you may well have some free periods, but you have missed the point. It should be used for academic usage (depending on the college of course) and as per the T&C's you signed when you joined. If you dont like it, dont use the net or leave. or put up with it.

TBH this sounds like a techie just picking on you guys, or hes gone through a top 10/20 list of high usage sites and looked into them and whether they are actually academic or not. and or if you guys are bad users and constantly use it during lessons or miss lessons to use the net.

[Afty]

Originally posted by TheGuyver
We soon had to change the lunch rule, as every computer was filled with people doing this crap and people who really wanted to work couldnt.

This was a huge problem at the university I went to. I had my own computer, but most people didn't so had to use the computer rooms, which were just labs, open all day for any student with about 50 PCs equipped with internet access.

At any given time between 6am and midnight about 45 people would be in there playing games, viewing porn, chatting or browsing online shops, 5 people would be working, and about 20 people would be queuing for access. The only time genuine students could get access to the equipment they paid for was in the early hours of the morning.

The argument was "Well, the uni has already paid for the computers, and the bandwidth is free, so I'm not doing anything wrong" which was totally out of order and socially irresponsible.

[Brains-Lans]

It's my education Afty. I choose not to work. you HAVE to pay your taxes. Maybe you need to deal with your taxes being spent of asylum seekers before telling me how to lead my life....

[Space Cowboy]

Thankfully, this is no longer a problem, due to the large amount of labs, and more people having PCs in Halls.

[Bugstomper]

i was a retail transport engineer* at my local tescos to pay for my college and degree courses, character building stuff !

The "my taxes are paying for you to slack" arguement is ok, but surely our taxes are paying for the education we've already had ? I never had to pay uni fees, my college and school was free, any tax i pay would be towards the 'debt' i owe for having all that free rather than to them for slacking ?

point still stands though, do some work hippy slackers !

/me turns off forum and wanders back down to the clean room





*trolley boy :D

[Afty]

Originally posted by Brains-Lans
It's my education Afty. I choose not to work. you HAVE to pay your taxes. Maybe you need to deal with your taxes being spent of asylum seekers before telling me how to lead my life....

Unfortunately the world isn't a perfect place, so we need to keep accepting asylum seekers, and paying out what it takes to make sure we don't send the persecuted back. There is little we can do about this, except try to help the spread of education and democracy around the globe.

On the other hand, we can do alot about lazy students...

[Afty]

Originally posted by Bugstomper
The "my taxes are paying for you to slack" arguement is ok, but surely our taxes are paying for the education we've already had ? I never had to pay uni fees, my college and school was free, any tax i pay would be towards the 'debt' i owe for having all that free rather than to them for slacking ?

This is true if the person has a good education and contributes enough to the economy to pay back their school and college fees (among other social spending). If they are a perpetual slacker, they will never do this, so it's the taxes of everyone else who pays for their "education". Or as I like to refer to it "vacation".

[Cyberdude]

awe this is much better.... the emotional long posting afty :-)

;-)




Cd

[Afty]

Have I become my own daytime talk show?

[TheGuyver]

Originally posted by Brains-Lans
It's my education Afty. I choose not to work. you HAVE to pay your taxes. Maybe you need to deal with your taxes being spent of asylum seekers before telling me how to lead my life....

clearly you arnt the brain i met at fbl.

more clearly is that if this is your view, then the education isnt working.

[Skillet]

All I can say is.....

I'm with Afty 100%

Was going to write a long post in support but I don't have time. I need to get on with some work so I can pay for you to not get educated. :(

[Ruth]

Originally posted by afty
Have I become my own daytime talk show?

What do you mean "Have i become"? You've been a source of amusement for all MPUK staff for a long long time.

You are the voice of the people Afty! *

*The people being the MPUK staff.

You know you can get your way all the time, you know you are always right and these people who oppose you are quite clearly wrong. If someone tries to make a point stand, when you have already made your mind up, there is no way you are going to back down from your high horse.

I dont even know why people still even bother to argue with you! I see a reply from you and think 'Oh well, the thread may as well die a death now' because you come along and impose your opinion onto other people and expect to be respected and believed.

Take me, for example. You are so sure you can work your magic on me, even after two months of being broke up. You know i have a boyfriend and am happy without you but you still wont ****ing give up, because you simply cannot accept the fact that someone would stand up to you. You have some bloody nerve coming onto me like that. Jesus Christ you do my head in. How the **** did i put up with you for six months!?!

[Pharius]

One of the wonderful things about living in a democracy is that you have no say where the money goes after you give it to the government. You are not only paying for people to waste time at college in chat rooms and on internet forums, you are also paying for the monarchy. Every time the queen takes a crap you are paying for the maintenance and cleaning bills, you are paying for hospital treatment of replacing the liver of those who have abused alcohol all their lives, for ridiculously large millennium celebratory monuments and you are paying the wages of people whose soul job is to investigate people who are abusing the benefit system.

Sure in a perfect world this abuse wouldn't happen, everyone would give exactly what they put into a society as they took out. But that'll never happen. Everyone messes around when they are at school, has a laugh, wastes some of the teachers time, unless you were perfect in every way when you were at school you aren't in a position to criticise.

That's my opinion anyway.

[Afty]

Whoa! I detect hostility. Maybe I should disconnect our DSL... :p

But more seriously I think you overestimate my impact on the forum entertainment level.

[Ruth]

To be fair, you do say some pretty witty and intelligent stuff. And yeah, you just want your opinion to be heard. You are utterly amazing and a great guy.

Hoorah for Afty. The voice of righteousness.

[10acious]

/me goes to touch this thread with a bargepole
/me decides better of it and runs for the skyline

[Afty]

LOL 10. We'll be arriving at 9pm. Be ready. :)

[10acious]

ill be stood at the door with riot gear and a barge pole sized cattle prod

[Ruth]

10, i have to say, you are so lucky to be sitting next to Russ and me for the entire event. You lucky, lucky boy! It must be like christmas all over again for you! Oh wait, they dont have Christmas in Redditch do they? Just people breaking into houses and stealing stuff you dont even have in the first place.

:)

[Mingtea]

Redditch is ****ing club tropicana compared to the **** hole that you live in.

:)

[Silk75]

People - we clearly have some issues

Please work them out

[Boffykins]

Originally posted by afty
On the other hand, we can do alot about lazy students...

Brains-lans is one of my best mates, and I'd like to defend him.

But I can't.

He's a work-shy fop, and anyone who does **** ALL in college and takes all the advantages without giving anything back does not deserve to be there tbh. People like him need to buck up and do the work required to get the most out of college. Yes I'm slighlty inebriated, what with it being 5:38 on a StratLAN morning, but alcohol brings out the honesty. I do my work, and people like Afty, no offence to him (except when i Bomb his Destroyer tbh), think that students are lazy, when the MAJORITY of us aren't, but people like Brains-lans etc make us look lazy. You get out of life what you put in. I hope to get a lot out of life, and am putting in whatever is required to maximise it's potential. Some people are clearly gonnas end up with a ****e life.

</rant>

[Ruth]

Originally posted by MiNgTeA
Redditch is ****ing club tropicana compared to the **** hole that you live in.

:)

Club Tropicana

heehee

:)

[Zenith]

The "I pay taxes to keep you in college/uni" argument doesn't hold much water I'm afraid.

You all seem to have conveniently forgotten that each student has to pay £1100 a year for higher education study at college. Depending on the means test, this might be paid by yourself, your parents or if you're in the particular situation, the local authority. Don't think for a moment that your taxes are paying for *all* the education.
Far more of your taxes are spent on maintaining the Welfare State than are spent on education, so if you're going to get mardy over "feckless students", save your vitriol for the REAL scroungers who sit on their arse all day claiming Jobseekers Allowance. FFS, there are more Sky satellite dishes on the local council estate than there are on non-council accommodation. How can they afford it? I can't afford £35 a month on top of my TV licence and yet a number of these people are not working.

People who invest the £1100 a year for college or uni tend to end up with higher salaried positions, and so are of greater worth to the economy than people on low wage part time employment. It's a simple matter of numbers. Someone on £21k a year pays more tax than someone on £10k a year. Having a higher education increases the chances of having that £21k job.

And for those of you who have been to college and are complaining here about paying taxes... stop being such ****ing hypocrites. You've been to college and HAD your education. Now pay back your student loan, pay your taxes and generally clear your burden on society before you start commenting about the USE of your taxes.

I've done things the other way around. I've been working and paying my taxes for the best part of 10 years, now I'm a fulltime student. I do it so I can improve my job prospects and long term career options. A majority of the people on my course are hard working and would not take kindly to the comments being made here about students being lazy. Many of us are up till the early hours doing assignment work and spend "free periods" in the HE base room (common room) doing work... NOT just browsing, emailing and texting people. The further education students (AVCE, GNVQ and so on) are generally younger and tend to goof around more. The higher education students (HNC,HND and degree) tend to be more serious about what they're doing.

[Boffykins]

Zen, we're talking about a Sixth-form college here. We don't pay anything to attend, the LEA pay it all. I do have to say that Brian is a freeloading waster, and needs to be killed and fed to the masses to repay his debt to society. He'd feed an entire third world nation for a couple of months at least

[Mingtea]

/me spruces up the palm tree.

[Defcon]

In my opinion colleges should allow forums etc. but work as a priority. If someone comes in and asks for work someone who said they're using the computers for non-academic use will be thrown off.

Then you might say everyone will come in asking to do work. Well the person in charge goes around every 30 minutes, checking anyone that put down they're working but infact isn't, giving them a warning before banning them for x weeks from the college facilities. If it's so important to them they wont be doing it again.

As for taxes, anyone that earns over £40,000 has most likely been to college correct? The fact anything you earn over £40,000 gets taxed 40% will pay for all those 'lazy' students, so therefore afty, you yourself pay nothing towards these lazy students and the fact if no lazy student was to attend college there more than likely wont be any less tutors, just smaller classes.

[Afty]

Originally posted by Defcon
Well the person in charge goes around every 30 minutes, checking anyone that put down they're working but infact isn't

Alt-Tab. Also, you have to pay a new salary to that person - another 20 or 30 grand a year per college just to let people browse the forums?

[Afty]

Originally posted by Zenith
The further education students (AVCE, GNVQ and so on) are generally younger and tend to goof around more. The higher education students (HNC,HND and degree) tend to be more serious about what they're doing.

Having been to two colleges of further education, and university for a short time I would tend to agree that there is a trend, but I can guarantee you most of the younger ones are there to goof off, and probably a good third or so of the degree students too.

Now having students pay something towards their education seems like a good idea to me, but I would also like to see long term tax credits for those students, should they earn, say, double the national average wage or more. (In other words, the fees you paid out of your own pocket are given back to you if you make something commercially of your life - otherwise you have to pay them back. Currently the system works the other way around).

Finally, as for comparing the dole scroungers (I live in what is Northern Europes largest council estate AFAIK) to students I'd agree the dole scroungers are a larger problem, unfortunately I want to appear to have an at least partially moderate argument, so I won't even mention the solution I envisage for habitual dole scroungers.

Oh OK then. Deportation.

[Defcon]

Originally posted by afty
Alt-Tab. Also, you have to pay a new salary to that person - another 20 or 30 grand a year per college just to let people browse the forums?

Wrong, most colleges have computer areas such as our Learning Resource Centre, 100 or so computers and 3 or so libarians on at any time, it takes them what 3 minutes to look over every computer screen in the room.

[Brains-Lans]

Did it ever occur to you all that the education system has failed me?

I went to college with the aim of passing with good grades. Not that that matters now. I am going to leave college and go do an apprentiship.

Whilst you all have a basis to slag me of for doing no work, I do take it personally that 'its all my fault' the system doesnt work for me.

Anything that I am truely dedicated to i give 110%. Things I hate like college NOW (wasn't always like this) I do nothing. I just have a strong emotional side.

And I AM NOT LAZY. Just because I do nothing at college doesnt mean I do nothing full stop. I work bloody hard at weekends for my employer.

Whilst I have insulted the system I will admit that I could have done more and achieved better but for various reasons I am not going to discuss in public; i didn't.

I am no better or worse than you BoffBowsh or you Afty. Just different.

[Ruth]

I went to college for approx. 4 months before leaving.

I sat in my lessons and watched as my high hopes for further education drifted away out of the window, just as Brain says above.

However Brain, instead of wasting the college's mresources, and the time of the students who want to learn and the lecturers who want to teach, and leave and get an apprenticeship or even, god forbid, a job.

People like you and me who cant be bothered to sit for 2 years having ****ty education pumped into our veins shouldnt waste it for others who want to. Leaving and getting a job's one of the best things ive ever done, yeah so im an un-educated bum with no education, but ive got enough money to get by, ive got my friends and family and im lush...Im happy.

To summarise this post, im basically saying: Get your act together, work out what you want, and stop making people like Afty rant at us all. Thnx.

[Brains-Lans]

Rooth darling

I do a modular course and at the end of every failed module i say to myself i will try harder.

But i dont.

I am going to see what grade I get for my modular exam I did just before xmas. If that goes OK then I am leaving on March 31st.

And if they want to Rant then let them. They are no better than us. some of the best people I know have been flipping burgers since their 16th birthday. There are also some education successful people I know who are cool. Education doesnt have to be in college, you learn lots no matter what you do.

[Ruth]

Damn straight.

I do believe the point of the rant from Afty though is that he pays his taxes to fund you doin nowt until you wait for your results. Me too. I work 40hs a week now, pay my taxes....OMG...its funding lay-abouts like you. Fs.

[Bob^^]

tax sucks

so do layabout students :D

[Afty]

Originally posted by Brains-Lans
I do a modular course and at the end of every failed module i say to myself i will try harder.

But i dont.

I'm trying to understand your reasoning, but I can't. You say college has failed you on minute, the next you tell us you're failing yourself?

[10acious]

i typed out a big rational post and after about 20 lines i got bored and narrowed it down to the following

Brains is a lazy fop
im a hypocrite

and i ENJOYED PERSONALLY WASTING AFTYS TAXES :D

[Ruth]

OMG 10!

wtf happened to ****ing 'psychologically'?

My god.

[AphexTwin]

Well i read half of this post, and in my current state i feel the need to tell you all to **** off

[Bob^^]

Well i read half of this post, and in my current state i feel the need to tell you all to **** off

Brains is a lazy fop
im a hypocrite

mmmmmmmmmmm

[SL_iCe^]

Originally posted by afty
Have I become my own daytime talk show?

tbh afty. I respect you for ur knowledge, but you sound like you are up ur own arse,

Originally posted by Rooth
What do you mean "Have i become"? You've been a source of amusement for all MPUK staff for a long long time.

You are the voice of the people Afty! *

*The people being the MPUK staff.

You know you can get your way all the time, you know you are always right and these people who oppose you are quite clearly wrong. If someone tries to make a point stand, when you have already made your mind up, there is no way you are going to back down from your high horse.

I dont even know why people still even bother to argue with you! I see a reply from you and think 'Oh well, the thread may as well die a death now' because you come along and impose your opinion onto other people and expect to be respected and believed.

Take me, for example. You are so sure you can work your magic on me, even after two months of being broke up. You know i have a boyfriend and am happy without you but you still wont ****ing give up, because you simply cannot accept the fact that someone would stand up to you. You have some bloody nerve coming onto me like that. Jesus Christ you do my head in. How the **** did i put up with you for six months!?!

About time someone stood up to afty, so many ppl are up his arse (so to speak) its unbelievable,
granted you know what you are on about, but you have got to be willing to back down sometimes.
All those that live and die by afty, get ur own opinions,
all i ever read is afty writing something and lots of ppl saying the same/similar things and backing him up 100%.
Yes this may be because they do actually agree with him, but i bet some of you just agree so he don’t "quote" you.

[Space Cowboy]

Jesus. When did Afty turn into this forum god?

Get some well formed arguments, and come back when you're done.

[AphexTwin]

never then?

[SL_iCe^]

all I’m saying is that most of the people of these forums tend you just agree with afty, granted it may be because they generally agree with him, but a bet allot of them only agree because of him reputation, I’m just saying its only a forum, give ur own opinions, what the worst that can happen, you turn out to be wrong? big deal.

Was also trying to get the point across that atfy can never admin if he’s in the wrong,

I’v noticed a few v'good points against afty's comments.
afty just seems to ignore them as if they weren't there.


also, its afty that is sugesting hes a forum god.
well hes sugesting hes his own "daytime talk show"
Also, its afty that is suggesting he’s a forum god.
Well hes suggesting he is his own "daytime talk show"

To me this seems argent, so I though id give my two cents, all be it if you "quote me" and I turn into this super human horrible nasty person that no one likes.

[Silk75]

Originally posted by 10acious
i typed out a big rational post and after about 20 lines i got bored and narrowed it down to the following

Brains is a lazy fop
im a hypocrite

and i ENJOYED PERSONALLY WASTING AFTYS TAXES :D

Sod Aftys taxes, as Wizzo has pointed out on *numerous* occasions, I'm a bit older than the average bear.

So pay up townie boi!!

/me thinks brekkie on 10acious today??


Thx

Wp

[Afty]

Originally posted by SL_iCe^
all I’m saying is ...

Jesus kid. Get off the crack.

[10acious]

sl^ice im not going to argue with you because im aftys biggest fan (he's sooooo dreamie)

i disagree with u because u r a ****ing retard
(afty gave me the ú because he is the greek god of forums)

dont worry im not alone there is 10 ppl sat next to me who agree fully (sorry 9 rooth hates afty)

nibbler says "why dont u go outside and play hide and go **** yourself "

Limited sais "twat"

MONK looks forward to replying to ur idiotic post later

P.S. argent
Heraldry. The metal silver, represented by the color white.
Archaic. Silver or something resembling it

[Ruth]

sl^ice, its a brave man who replies to Afty. With all his groupies and whatnot, you'll find yourself disliked in MPUK before you even join.

Afty is actually a generous, considerate and paitent young man, with a bright future full of smooth cars and fast women. He's just a ****, thats all.

[10acious]

p.s. **** u rooth im not a groupie

[10acious]

Originally posted by Rooth

Afty is actually a generous, considerate and paitent young man, with a bright future full of smooth cars and fast women.

whos the ass kissing groupie now

[Cheez]

Handbags at dawn? :)

[Ruth]

10, you sexy bitch, learn how to use the edit button. Multiple posts are so boring.

Obviously i have to be nice to Afty, he's giving me a lift home.

[Joey]

i love afty

[MONK]

I thought I may as well jump in as well......

I was hoping to disagree with afty (makes it more interesting) but I do agree with a fair bit of what he says (in this post.)

But I will post back about the real reason for this thread later.

As for afty.......

I would have thought it is possible that some people agree with him just because he is afty, but there are a fair few of us that have no problem disagreeing with him.

As for Afty being a forum god I think this is just cos you see him post a lot. This does not mean he is right in every signle thing he says.

[Devvy]

People agree with Afty because he actually has a clue what he is talking about. He backs up his opinion with facts and doesn't sound like an absolute cretin.

Thats enough for now.

[Boffykins]

It is easier to agree with Afty than disagree with him because he actually IS right. He knows what he's on about on mostr subjects, and to argue against him is most likely to be arguing the wrong point

[Ruth]

Well said Devvy, well said.

I still think he's a **** though.

[Mingtea]

JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY

[Brains-Lans]

Well I think that this thread has been going on for long enough. I will not change unless the system changes and that it wont.

I am me. Accept it,

[SL_iCe^]

Originally posted by afty
Jesus kid. Get off the crack.

for a start, i dont take drugs, so pls dont imply i do. (im actually discusted that all you could come up with was that...)

im not a"kid" either, im 17, 18 on the 27th on this month.
not that ages has much to do with anything.

Originally posted by 10acious
sl^ice im not going to argue with you because im aftys biggest fan (he's sooooo dreamie)

i disagree with u because u r a ****ing retard
(afty gave me the ú because he is the greek god of forums)

dont worry im not alone there is 10 ppl sat next to me who agree fully (sorry 9 rooth hates afty)

nibbler says "why dont u go outside and play hide and go **** yourself "

Limited sais "twat"

MONK looks forward to replying to ur idiotic post later

P.S. argent
Heraldry. The metal silver, represented by the color white.
Archaic. Silver or something resembling it

I disagree with some things afty says, and give my opinion,
And that means im a “****ing retard” I can see the sense in that.
Or is it because you have ur head up afty’s arse and anyone who doesn’t is a “****ing retard” ?

Originally posted by Rooth
sl^ice, its a brave man who replies to Afty. With all his groupies and whatnot, you'll find yourself disliked in MPUK before you even join.

Afty is actually a generous, considerate and paitent young man, with a bright future full of smooth cars and fast women. He's just a ****, thats all.

Wel I did think, about how everyone would chose their sides, all be it if 99% of them chose afty, just shows they are week tbh.
Im not saying that afty isn’t right all/most of the time, but there so many ppl that just agree with him so he don’t tare them to peaces in the forums.
Possibility that afty has money and that also could be a reason the ppl that know him stick to him.

Originally posted by MONK
I thought I may as well jump in as well......

I was hoping to disagree with afty (makes it more interesting) but I do agree with a fair bit of what he says (in this post.)

But I will post back about the real reason for this thread later.

As for afty.......

I would have thought it is possible that some people agree with him just because he is afty, but there are a fair few of us that have no problem disagreeing with him.

As for Afty being a forum god I think this is just cos you see him post a lot. This does not mean he is right in every single thing he says.

Imo most ppl do have a problem disagreeing with afty,
And I’m not saying afty is a forum god, he seems to think that himself.
And when something is said that isn’t exactly the subject is hand (but still relevant to some degree) that seems right(against afty), afty don’t reply. Is this because he don’t see it worth replying to, or that he has no reply because he is wrong?
If the second reason. Then replying and acknowledging that you are wrong for a change will only make you more human.

Originally posted by Devvy
People agree with Afty because he actually has a clue what he is talking about. He backs up his opinion with facts and doesn't sound like an absolute cretin.

Thats enough for now.

True he does back everything up with facts. And he knows what he’s on about.
What I’m saying is that ppl agree with him because they afraid of him.

Originally posted by MiNgTeA
JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY
(taken most of the “JERRY’s” out)
well that the decider then. Afty must have become his own daytime talk show!

The point of my posts earlier was to get ppl thinking. Why do they always agree with afty,
Is it because he’s always right?
Is it because they LOVE him?
Is it because they are afraid of him?

Imo 20% of the people asking themselves this are afraid of him,
But don’t be, give YOUR honest opinion on the matters,

I know that these posts of mine have made be the target of everyone’s HATE! But tbh I don’t care, the people I know personally seem to like me, if the ppl in these forums don’t like me then, o well. Ill just put up with the hate mail. Any carry on as normal.
Still I hope to meet up with you all at i15, then I may even buy some of you a pint or 2, just to show there’s life outside these forums.

Hmm 2 side of a4, I better stop :(

[AphexTwin]

You do realise that your whole quote war will end in tears as you havent the fainest chance of outwitting anyone around here with your lack of wit and shocking spelling?

Hi.

I

CAN

QUOTE!!11111

[10acious]

ok just to put u straight

there were 10 ppl in aftys powerful dark shadow, and under his influence of PURE FEAR, we decided to all say bad things about u, yes all of us (due to the intimidation of course), now that im out of aftys powerful and evil claws i can stand up on my own 2 legs and say that i think you're great, because u have the "guts" to stand up against afty, not because u believe he is wrong, but because other ppl agree with him, so in essence ure disagreeing with him just to be different, possibly for attention, whereas a lot of ppl agree with afty because he makes a good argument, and explains all of his points well.

I also think ure really cool in the way u use the wrong words in sentences, like week = weak and tare ???? i assume u mean tear. Man, ure such a cool rebel

and just to be serious for a minute no one who knows afty is scared of him, we dont fear his savage ability to make cs kiddies look like idiots, because they do that to themselves.

and in my final point afty is genuinely **** at pool

[Pharius]

There is a difference between being someones 'fanboi' and accepting his or her opinion. I disagreed with what he had to say, I posted my opinion. That’s how a conversation works.

You also may want to run your posts through a spell checker before you submit them too. Along with an irony detector.

[Mingtea]

Oh and after actually reading this thread, FYI i pay tax, work 33 hours a week and squeeze in full time college.

I win.

[Pharius]

I think you can be exempt from tax if you are in full time education, you may be losing out. Not entirely sure though.

[Mingtea]

I have 2 jobs, therefore i am not exempt.

[SL_iCe^]

well i did run it through a spell checker actually, i wrote it in the dam spell checker.
i corrected all the mistakes i made (non from quotes) i did however miss one spelling mistake :/
discusted <--- its custard (spelt wrong) but its been “dissed”, hence the discusted
was a general spelling error, and i missed it when correcting my mistakes, discusted - disgusted.

and the other things, like using wrong words, well they were prob typing errors that i quickly right clicked and clicked on the word that looked the right one (quick browse)
but imo that been picky to point out the mistakes, specially how you not said owt about the messages a quoted, they have alot of spelling mistakes)

im not looking for attention. and looking back over my posts. lmao. wtf am i on about, i think i got carried away and lost the plot,
i like afty for his knowledge and seems an okay guy (bit up himself :p: but quite a nice guy)
basically i just got little head rushed when i read some thing that was v'similar to afty's post, and though "wtf, they all up his arse, fecking get ur own opinions and stop supporting him because he may quote you"
summat like that :rolleyes:
anyway, just don’t feel "pressured" into agreeing with afty.

[Space Cowboy]

I'm sorry, but this thread has descended into the biggest pile of steaming ****e since... well... the last thread that descended into a big steaming pile of ****e.

I don't know what the hell anyone is talking about anymore, so why don't you all run along now, and play nicely?